▲ 285 ▼ I’ll take their chances (thelemmy.club) submitted 4 months ago by jaycifer@lemmy.world to c/antiquememesroadshow@lemmy.world 75 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] obre@slrpnk.net 61 points 4 months ago (23 children) 1.00 • 1 death = 1 death Vs. 0.25 • 5 deaths = 1.25 deaths On average you're better off not pulling the lever. permalink fedilink source hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] McGuirk808@lemmy.world 21 points 4 months ago (5 children) Look at it selfishly: 100% chance of killing someone 25% chance of killing someone Pulling the level is the only way to have a shot at not being saddled with the guilt of killing someone. Sure, killing 5 people is worse than killing 1, but avoiding that personal impact entirely is a desirable goal in and of itself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 4 months ago (1 child) This was my thought too, initially, but then I remembered that the first possibility happens through inaction. So I guess it depends on whether or not the person sees that as them killing someone permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] McGuirk808@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago I can't say what is objectively true, but I can say that if I were in that situation, I absolutely would feel responsible for the outcome if I could have reasonably affected it. permalink fedilink source parent [–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 point 4 months ago* (2 children) Should you feel bad for risking it, even if you get lucky? If when you cause something by accident you don't feel as bad, you're going partly by intentions, not actual outcomes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] McGuirk808@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago (1 child) If I could have done something to prevent it, but chose not to, and someone died, I would feel just as bad as if I pulled the lever and killed someone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 point 4 months ago* Yeah, same. On the other side, the law doesn't work that way - almost killing someone and actually killing someone are treated very differently. That might partly be down to how hard it would be to prove a 1/4 expected manslaughter, though. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago (13 children) Implying you'll be running this multiple times? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] toofpic@lemmy.world 44 points 4 months ago (10 children) The number of attempts is not mathematically affecting the outcome of a single attempts - statistics don't "owe you" any specific outcomes, just based on previous outcomes. It will be the same formula for each permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] ergonomic_importer@piefed.ca 15 points 4 months ago (3 children) Statistics also won't help you with the guilt when the tram runs over 5 people and now it's just you and the one guy you saved now trauma bonded. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] abbadon420@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 months ago (2 children) I'm not the idiot who tues people to train tracks. I won't be feeling much guilt permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prime_number_314159@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago What if, by taking some seemingly benign action, followed by a series of unforeseeable events, you have caused the people to be on the train tracks? permalink fedilink source parent [–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 1 point 4 months ago Hey I'm not an idiot. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Enekk@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago (1 child) Actually, in this case, unless they are... refilling... the hostages each run, the results of previous runs do affect each additional run. Unless you feel that running someone over the second time kills them a second time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago "aww damn, 5 people are double dead" permalink fedilink source parent [–] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago (1 child) I didn't need math to know that the only way I see a guy beheaded is if I don't pull the lever, so we got to the same answer. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] toofpic@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago If you don't, you will, look at the post again permalink fedilink source parent [+] Enekk@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] someone@lemmy.today 1 point 4 months ago* I am not sure this is technically true if the probabilities have any dependence. permalink fedilink source parent [–] obre@slrpnk.net 4 points 4 months ago Implying I haven't already permalink fedilink source parent [–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 point 4 months ago We have to to be sure. /s permalink fedilink source parent [–] OwOarchist@pawb.social 7 points 4 months ago (1 child) Found the risk manager. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago https://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2320 permalink fedilink source parent [–] someone@lemmy.today 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) These are not independent probabilities and we can't disregard the initial mathematical data (unless I'm wrong, not a stat major). permalink fedilink source parent
[–] McGuirk808@lemmy.world 21 points 4 months ago (5 children) Look at it selfishly: 100% chance of killing someone 25% chance of killing someone Pulling the level is the only way to have a shot at not being saddled with the guilt of killing someone. Sure, killing 5 people is worse than killing 1, but avoiding that personal impact entirely is a desirable goal in and of itself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 4 months ago (1 child) This was my thought too, initially, but then I remembered that the first possibility happens through inaction. So I guess it depends on whether or not the person sees that as them killing someone permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] McGuirk808@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago I can't say what is objectively true, but I can say that if I were in that situation, I absolutely would feel responsible for the outcome if I could have reasonably affected it. permalink fedilink source parent [–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 point 4 months ago* (2 children) Should you feel bad for risking it, even if you get lucky? If when you cause something by accident you don't feel as bad, you're going partly by intentions, not actual outcomes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] McGuirk808@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago (1 child) If I could have done something to prevent it, but chose not to, and someone died, I would feel just as bad as if I pulled the lever and killed someone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 point 4 months ago* Yeah, same. On the other side, the law doesn't work that way - almost killing someone and actually killing someone are treated very differently. That might partly be down to how hard it would be to prove a 1/4 expected manslaughter, though. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 4 months ago (1 child) This was my thought too, initially, but then I remembered that the first possibility happens through inaction. So I guess it depends on whether or not the person sees that as them killing someone permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] McGuirk808@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago I can't say what is objectively true, but I can say that if I were in that situation, I absolutely would feel responsible for the outcome if I could have reasonably affected it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] McGuirk808@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago I can't say what is objectively true, but I can say that if I were in that situation, I absolutely would feel responsible for the outcome if I could have reasonably affected it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 point 4 months ago* (2 children) Should you feel bad for risking it, even if you get lucky? If when you cause something by accident you don't feel as bad, you're going partly by intentions, not actual outcomes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] McGuirk808@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago (1 child) If I could have done something to prevent it, but chose not to, and someone died, I would feel just as bad as if I pulled the lever and killed someone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 point 4 months ago* Yeah, same. On the other side, the law doesn't work that way - almost killing someone and actually killing someone are treated very differently. That might partly be down to how hard it would be to prove a 1/4 expected manslaughter, though. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] McGuirk808@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago (1 child) If I could have done something to prevent it, but chose not to, and someone died, I would feel just as bad as if I pulled the lever and killed someone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 point 4 months ago* Yeah, same. On the other side, the law doesn't work that way - almost killing someone and actually killing someone are treated very differently. That might partly be down to how hard it would be to prove a 1/4 expected manslaughter, though. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 point 4 months ago* Yeah, same. On the other side, the law doesn't work that way - almost killing someone and actually killing someone are treated very differently. That might partly be down to how hard it would be to prove a 1/4 expected manslaughter, though. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago (13 children) Implying you'll be running this multiple times? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] toofpic@lemmy.world 44 points 4 months ago (10 children) The number of attempts is not mathematically affecting the outcome of a single attempts - statistics don't "owe you" any specific outcomes, just based on previous outcomes. It will be the same formula for each permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] ergonomic_importer@piefed.ca 15 points 4 months ago (3 children) Statistics also won't help you with the guilt when the tram runs over 5 people and now it's just you and the one guy you saved now trauma bonded. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] abbadon420@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 months ago (2 children) I'm not the idiot who tues people to train tracks. I won't be feeling much guilt permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prime_number_314159@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago What if, by taking some seemingly benign action, followed by a series of unforeseeable events, you have caused the people to be on the train tracks? permalink fedilink source parent [–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 1 point 4 months ago Hey I'm not an idiot. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Enekk@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago (1 child) Actually, in this case, unless they are... refilling... the hostages each run, the results of previous runs do affect each additional run. Unless you feel that running someone over the second time kills them a second time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago "aww damn, 5 people are double dead" permalink fedilink source parent [–] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago (1 child) I didn't need math to know that the only way I see a guy beheaded is if I don't pull the lever, so we got to the same answer. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] toofpic@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago If you don't, you will, look at the post again permalink fedilink source parent [+] Enekk@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] someone@lemmy.today 1 point 4 months ago* I am not sure this is technically true if the probabilities have any dependence. permalink fedilink source parent [–] obre@slrpnk.net 4 points 4 months ago Implying I haven't already permalink fedilink source parent [–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 point 4 months ago We have to to be sure. /s permalink fedilink source parent
[–] toofpic@lemmy.world 44 points 4 months ago (10 children) The number of attempts is not mathematically affecting the outcome of a single attempts - statistics don't "owe you" any specific outcomes, just based on previous outcomes. It will be the same formula for each permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] ergonomic_importer@piefed.ca 15 points 4 months ago (3 children) Statistics also won't help you with the guilt when the tram runs over 5 people and now it's just you and the one guy you saved now trauma bonded. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] abbadon420@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 months ago (2 children) I'm not the idiot who tues people to train tracks. I won't be feeling much guilt permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prime_number_314159@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago What if, by taking some seemingly benign action, followed by a series of unforeseeable events, you have caused the people to be on the train tracks? permalink fedilink source parent [–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 1 point 4 months ago Hey I'm not an idiot. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Enekk@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago (1 child) Actually, in this case, unless they are... refilling... the hostages each run, the results of previous runs do affect each additional run. Unless you feel that running someone over the second time kills them a second time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago "aww damn, 5 people are double dead" permalink fedilink source parent [–] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago (1 child) I didn't need math to know that the only way I see a guy beheaded is if I don't pull the lever, so we got to the same answer. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] toofpic@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago If you don't, you will, look at the post again permalink fedilink source parent [+] Enekk@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] someone@lemmy.today 1 point 4 months ago* I am not sure this is technically true if the probabilities have any dependence. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ergonomic_importer@piefed.ca 15 points 4 months ago (3 children) Statistics also won't help you with the guilt when the tram runs over 5 people and now it's just you and the one guy you saved now trauma bonded. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] abbadon420@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 months ago (2 children) I'm not the idiot who tues people to train tracks. I won't be feeling much guilt permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prime_number_314159@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago What if, by taking some seemingly benign action, followed by a series of unforeseeable events, you have caused the people to be on the train tracks? permalink fedilink source parent [–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 1 point 4 months ago Hey I'm not an idiot. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] abbadon420@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 months ago (2 children) I'm not the idiot who tues people to train tracks. I won't be feeling much guilt permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] prime_number_314159@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago What if, by taking some seemingly benign action, followed by a series of unforeseeable events, you have caused the people to be on the train tracks? permalink fedilink source parent [–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 1 point 4 months ago Hey I'm not an idiot. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] prime_number_314159@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago What if, by taking some seemingly benign action, followed by a series of unforeseeable events, you have caused the people to be on the train tracks? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 1 point 4 months ago Hey I'm not an idiot. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Enekk@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago (1 child) Actually, in this case, unless they are... refilling... the hostages each run, the results of previous runs do affect each additional run. Unless you feel that running someone over the second time kills them a second time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago "aww damn, 5 people are double dead" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago "aww damn, 5 people are double dead" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago (1 child) I didn't need math to know that the only way I see a guy beheaded is if I don't pull the lever, so we got to the same answer. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] toofpic@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago If you don't, you will, look at the post again permalink fedilink source parent
[–] toofpic@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago If you don't, you will, look at the post again permalink fedilink source parent
[–] someone@lemmy.today 1 point 4 months ago* I am not sure this is technically true if the probabilities have any dependence. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] obre@slrpnk.net 4 points 4 months ago Implying I haven't already permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 point 4 months ago We have to to be sure. /s permalink fedilink source parent
[–] OwOarchist@pawb.social 7 points 4 months ago (1 child) Found the risk manager. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago https://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2320 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago https://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2320 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] someone@lemmy.today 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) These are not independent probabilities and we can't disregard the initial mathematical data (unless I'm wrong, not a stat major). permalink fedilink source parent