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Honda shelves $11B Canada EV factory as its electric retreat deepens (electrek.co)
submitted 5 months ago by to c/canada@lemmy.ca
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cross-posted from : https://lemmy.zip/post/63799437

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[–] 4 points 5 months ago (33 children)

Y'all are silly if you think Honda is going to go bankrupt if they dont invest in electric cars.

Honda is not a CAR company, its an ENGINE company. They dont just put them into cars, they build motorcycles, rototillers, lawnmowers, pressure washers, generators, outboards, scooters, ATVs, side by sides, snowblowers, water pumps, a ton of general purpose industrial motors AND they make jets. They might know a thing or two about engines that EV lovers haven't figured out yet - the money is still in gas engines.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (31 children)

    I mean......they could just make electric engines. Ya know.....motors. Something they ALREADY MAKE for hybrid vehicles.

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  • [+] 1 point 5 months ago* (30 children)
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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Honda probably can’t make electric engines.

    You know they make satellite orbit rockets? Right?

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    I'm on your side, but I think their point was more "the investment for switching from ICE to electric manufacturing would be extremely costly in time and money across the board", not "Honda doesn't have engineering capabilities like this"

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  • [–] -4 points 5 months ago (26 children)

    "crushed" like Slurpees. I think not.

    The first commercially available EVs were out in the 90s. The first really successful EV was the Prius, which started production in 97 so almost THIRTY years ago. There is no "crushing" going on, there is a slow adoption by niche buyers. EVs will continue to be like diesel cars in north America - loved by a few but never mainstream.

    I've owned an EV since 2018 (along with 5 ICE vehicles). For all the drum beating and hype, they're not making much headway in Canada. Its a cool little car for what it does, but the fact is they're limited by a few killer factors. In order for them to be mainstream they are going to have to a) be cheaper, b) have comparable range to ICE, c) have a comparable 'fill up' time of 5-6 minutes on road trips, d) lose far less range in very cold weather, e) have ubiquitous charging infrastructure and f) make them able to tow trailers a comparable distance. Until all that happens they will continue to be a minority choice for the average buyer.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (10 children)

    EVs don't need to beat petrol vehicles in every way, in the same way that a sedan doesn't have to beat a minivan, or a laptop doesn't need to beat a smartphone.

    a) EVs are getting relatively cheaper every year, while all vehicles are getting more expensive. b) They have range far in excess of what 90% of people use in a day. c) You can rent a vehicles for road trips if you really want to drive non-stop for dozens of hours at a time. d) Cold weather range isn't too bad, and batteries usually condition themselves now. EV's have a cold weather advantage in that they don't need to idle for 10-15 minutes to prevent danage to the engine. e) Charging infrastructure is already ubiquitous, you can plug them into any electrical outlet and charge dozens of kilometers overnight. That's zero fill-up time. Most residential parking infrastructure already has available plugs for block heaters and such, basically only street parking would ve annoying here. If you regularly drive more than dozens of kilometers in a day, you can get a larger charging plug from residential circuits, like clothes driers and ovens use, for a few hundred dollars, and all but guarantee a full charge every night. f) All else being equal EVs have better torque for towing, and unless the trailer is a giant billboard they don't effect highway efficiency too much. Most importantly, 90% of people never tow anything.

    EVs have different strengths and weaknesses to petrol vehicles, and the millions of people who commute under 40 miles a day would find an EV cheaper and easier to own. EVs have many of the same weakness as petrol vehicles however, and insisting they have to fill the same niches makes that worse. You don't need to be reliant on fill stations, or have gigantic vehicles. EVs are best for smaller vehicles anyway, and smaller vehicles are better for roads and people's safety.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (9 children)

    Then explain to me (and remember Im an EV owner) why In 2025, zero-emission vehicles (ZEVs)—which include battery-electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles—accounted for only 8.7% of all new motor vehicles sold in Canada. Thats DOWN from over 13% the year before after most of the rebates dropped. Obviously, with 92% of new buyers NOT choosing them, they're not appealing to many, especially since they've had about 30 years to convince people.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago* (2 children)

    Just bought my first EV, it was a bit steeper, but i expect to save $40,000 in maintenance and gas over the same 12 years i owned my previous car.

    Cant imagine ever going back to ICE.

    I'm curious where you are getting the sales drop, i see an increase: https://electricautonomy.ca/data-trackers/ev-sales-data/2026-03-13/zev-sales-in-canada-rise-to-11-2-per-cent-market-share-in-q4-2025-statscan/

    New ZEV registrations across Canada hit 11.2 per cent market share in Q4 2025, according to the latest data from Statistics Canada.

    While that is an increase over the 9.7 per cent market share of ZEVs from Q3 2025, it represents a drop in overall volume.

    If i had to guess why, its due to the incentives starting to wind down (such as BC droping its sales tax rebate), the cost offset is reducing.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 child)

    Those are registrations of EVs not sales, so it includes all EVs sold to date. The actual sales of new EVs are declining says Stats Canada:

    "Zero-emission vehicle sales: In 2025, 169,972 ZEVs were sold in Canada, a decline of 35.7% from 2024. This sharp decrease was likely influenced by changes to federal and provincial ZEV incentive programs. In particular, the suspension of the federal Incentives for Zero-Emission Vehicles program in January 2025, along with the reduction of rebates offered under Quebec's Roulez Vert program, likely contributed to lower ZEV demand in 2025.

    In 2025, new ZEVs accounted for approximately 8.7% of all new motor vehicles sold in Canada. Again, this represents a significant decline from 2024, in which ZEVs accounted for 13.8% of new motor vehicle sales."

    https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/260316/dq260316c-eng.htm

    There's nothing wrong with EVs for certain tasks, particularly commuting to work. But the uninformed claims that EVs are taking over gas cars and that a company is doomed if it doesnt jump into EVs is just silly. They're clearly NOT preferred by most buyers - and our north American automotive history is littered with many EV startups that have already tried and gone bankrupt. I think Lucid is on the brink just this week, and we've already seen Fisker, Canoo, Lordstown, Coda, Proterra, LION busses, Sparrow, Faraday and Nikola bite the dust. Electra Meccanica SOLO was designed and started in BC and its done too.

    I even have a tiny bit of money invested in an EV startup but after 7 years of struggle Im heavily doubting they'll make it to mass market.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    I definitely think if they were cost comprable, and they are headed in that direction, they will be the preferred option, but i agree that its happening a lot slower than I expected.

    Thanks for the links!

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Growth doesn't have be a straight linear line always going up. We're in a transitional stage where the big issues are currently being addressed. The growth in EV adoption has been exponential, i.e slow to start with 20 years of basically nothing then 5 years of some improvements with a bit more adoption. Then 5 years of explosive growth, and the next 5 years will likely include more explosive growth as we address all the issues that they currently have.

    Pretty much all technology improves like this until they plateau. Just look at mobile phones, they first popped up ~50 years ago and had very slow improvements for about ~25 years until they started to pick steam in the 2000s, and then absolutely exploded in the 2010s.

    You're just an old person yelling at clouds who can't read the writing on the wall.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

    I'll repeat it for the deaf ones at the back of the room - Ive not only owned an EV for 8 years now, I have money invested in two EV startups, Edison Motors (because its a hybrid truck) and Aptera (because its solar powered). Im a past member of my local EV Owners Club and I've been following EVs since I first spotted a Citicar in 1978, so the only part of your comment that is correct is that Im older and much wiser than you.

    The problem with your analogy with mobile phones is that when the smartphone came along, it was EXPONENTIALLY superior to anything that preceded it. Not only could it be a phone but its a handheld computer, wallet, GPS, text, camera, video, it can start your car, run your entire smart home... just about any electronic application can be applied. That beats a Nokia dumb phone by miles which is why everyone has one.

    Thats definitely NOT true of EVs. They do some things better - like lower maintenance costs and have more torque and less noise. But they also do somethings worse - like much longer 'refueling' for road trips and they are almost impossible to repair by owners, they lose considerable range in the cold and they are more expensive to buy. Which is why they will remain a niche product. Because some people will find them more useful but obviously a lot of people don't.

    There are some things that more money will solve, like charging infrastructure, but there are some physics problems that EVs will never solve - like how its impossible to put the same amount of energy into an EV that you have in the size of a gas tank of an ICE car. The little 10 gallon tank in an gas Fiat 500 will take you 500 kms. The Fiat 500 EV with a battery only goes 220 km using up MUCH more room for its battery and it weighs 500 pounds more. Poorer physics is impossible to market as 'superior'.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (2 children)

    It's cute that you think age means wisdom. If that were true, then the older ruling class wouldn't be absolutely fucking our planet.

    Every problem that EVs have, there's a solution for. People are actively working on them, and some government are pushing EVs for environmental reasons. Once the problems that they have are solved they will be objectively better than ICE cars.

    Also, mobile phones weren't always the objectively best choice. There was a period of time where landlines were the better option because of the lack of infrastructure supporting them. It wasn't until the infrastructure started to expand to cover everywhere that the explosive growth really happened.

    And your "physics problems" are also solvable, people are currently putting billions of billions of dollars into battery research. There will come a point where batteries are superior to a tank of fuel for most use cases. I don't want to be the person saying "oh, solid state batteries are right around the corner," because companies have been promising them "next year" for like a decade now. But they almost certainly will eventually be viable commercially, and they only need to be half as good as they promise to really push the viability of EVs for the majority of use cases.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    And your “physics problems” are also solvable, people are currently putting billions of billions of dollars into battery research. There will come a point where batteries are superior to a tank of fuel for most use cases.

    So, we're equating spending money with finding solutions to a physics problem?Would that money include the billions for the NorthVolt plant that just went belly up in Quebec? Doesnt seem very successful. Im glad you're certain cause the people with the big bucks certainly don't seem to be.

    Have you looked at BYD (the BIG Chinese EV maker) lately? It has a Q1 2026 net profit decline of 55% year-on-year. Thats massive. Companies that cant attract investors dont succeed and when Warren Buffet pulls out of your company after 17 years, you know things are bleak.

    Just because some companies spend big money does not in any way guarantee anything. "Hope" does not equal success. More accurately the number of EV startups that have failed far outnumbers the very few that appear to be succeeding. For now.

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  • [+] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (10 children)
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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago* (9 children)

    We're on lemmy.ca, a CANADIAN site. European buyers are a whole different beast, especially since most live in countries that you can drive across in a day or less, not the second largest country in the world like Canada.

    Lets try CANADIAN stats: "In 2025, zero-emission vehicles (ZEVs)—which include battery-electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles—accounted for approximately 8.7% of all new motor vehicles sold in Canada, according to Statistics Canada. This represented a significant decrease in market share from the 13.8% recorded in 2024, partly due to the removal of federal and provincial purchasing incentives."

    They just dont sell unless they are propped up by taxpayer funds. I rest my case. I know what Im talking about - Ive been buying and selling vehicles in Canada for 45 years.

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  • [+] 3 points 5 months ago (8 children)
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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    My new EV has 520km range, which is higher than my ICE car had, so i think that the whole 'EV's have lesser range' is just innacurate now.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Maybe in summer. Real-world EV range loss in winter typically ranges from 14% to 39% based on 2025 AMA tests.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    quite possibly,

    My EV came with a heatpump for heating and cooling, so i wonder how that will change things.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Its better than those without one, but they still lose range in the cold as the heat pump also takes power. There's an advantage if you preheat the battery while the EV is still plugged in.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Its indeed relevant for quite a few people. If you are going to buy ONE car, you need one that does everything you need it to do. That means your daily commute AND the annual trip to see nana at Christmas and the kids basketball tournament in another province. For a SECOND car to commute they make sense.

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  • [+] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)
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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Yes, if you dont mind stopping for 40 minute recharges twice on a trip to nana's, they can. Lots of people find that extremely annoying, especially when the charging infrastructure anywhere off the main routes in Canada is dicey and careful trip planning becomes a necessity in case a charger is down, or its not one that takes your payment system.

    EVs are good for commuting, they're clearly and obviously NOT ideal for road trips/vacationing which is why people still post "Hey look I made it all the way to Newfoundland and back with my EV" in 2026 because thats literally a feat of courage, determination and planning. Some of us just like to drive and enjoy the view and not worry about how to refuel :)

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (3 children)

    Dude, the second the Ford lightning was available in BC they were everywhere, Canada has massive EV adoption rates as we have some of the cheapest power. EVs are incredibly popular in Canada.

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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    LOL. The Ford Lightning? C'mon man, keep up with the news. Ford cancelled the Lightning in Dec 2025 due to poor sales. They're still making the gas F150 which is their bread and butter. 90% of new car buyers do NOT choose an EV and with the subsidies dropping sales are going DOWN not up.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    Man you are oblivious. It was not poor sales it was so they could suck trump dick and make a version that still burned gas. The lightning is everywhere in BC.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Im going to assume you're just blinded by enthusiasm or high, but the facts say your wrong, my friend. Look at the total sales figures for F150's in 2025. They went DOWN by almost 10% and out of a whopping 555,704 F150, the Lightning sold only 19,077 (3.4% of all F150s sold).

    Those are figures for Ford sales in the US so if "Lightnings were everywhere" then you must have bought a couple thousand yourself because there were only 19,000 sold in the US and we're about 1/10 the population. That would approximate 1900 Lightnings sold in Canada compared to 55,700 gas versions. Thats VERY poor sales - about 4 trucks per dealership in Canada. No dealer is going to train all his techs, invest in new expensive repair equipment and a bunch of unique parts just to sell 4 Lightnings a year.

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