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Stop recommending Socialism 4 all to baby Marxist. That motherfucker's entire purpose for existing is denouncing every successful Actually Existing Socialist state. (thelemmy.club)
submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by to c/thedeprogram@lemmygrad.ml
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Recommend them The Red Pen or Dessalines instead. Western Marxism is better not receiving any traction at all. Fucking dogmatist Piece of shit!

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[–] -1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (6 children)

So now the accusation is skimming rather than not reading to the standard you have not set from someone who has not even read it. And you still have not read it but feel confident that what they did counts as ML analysis. If there's any consolation is that your brand, as you put it, of Western hubris is really common.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    Did you read the book?

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Yes. It's a few years old, to the point when you first said it I thought it may have been a different book ie did they have more to say since that book was written, I looked it up realised it was same book and edited my comment to reflect what I felt about it in brackets. When looking up what a party is about I try to look up what's closest to their equivalent of a manifesto and this came up as reading material. From what I gather whatthey have been doing since really has not really been promising but if this project is the best US has to offer then for the sake of the rest of the world I hope I am really really wrong.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Thank you for a direct answer. See its good to know this type of information before engaging. I always try to be up front with what I have read and what I haven't. You presented your position without even mentioning what you've read. That would have saved both of us a lot of time, don't you think?

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Thank you for a direct answer. See its good to know this type of information before engaging. I always try to be up front with what I have read and what I haven’t. You presented your position without even mentioning what you’ve read. That would have saved both of us a lot of time, don’t you think?

    Yeah, fair enough. Thank you

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    This is something others in this thread are accusing you of too by the way. Posting vaguely. Don't be vague here. This isn't twitter. Were all capable of reading and understanding your POV if you lay it out directly. We can't do that if you're just gesturing and making vague claims. This also goes with linking other peoples analysis. Linking to redsails is fine if your going to then explain how that link supports your position. Otherwise people have no idea what your take is from that piece.

    Your communication style feels hostile and defensive and vague from my perspective. I felt like I was engaging with the shadow of your perspective, and not your actual perspective and where it comes from.

    I don't know what your critique is if you're just going to make rhetorical statements. Those only work if the other person understands your perspective already. "What is the PSL doing ... ?" Only reads as a question you don't have the answer to. It's not a critique. But it also implies you know what they should be doing. Those ideas would have been something someone could engage with. And if you don't have those ideas, that's OK too, but you have to say so.

    You can be critical of the PSL, like anything else, but you have to state your critiques directly or no one will be able to engage with them. Instead they'll try to figure out your position through inquiry and assumption, which is also what was happening here.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago*

    The accusations of vague posting are effectively deflection - the PSL does not have a meaty position on anything I have said in their literature or videos though I am happy for them to be answered

    They are vague about this hence my questions. I am saying they have a lack of stances and that is worrying for a party that claims to be ML. Not once does anyone actually says: well the PSL says this about XYZ, it is all variations of "well it is challenging, what more can you expect" without ever addressing anything and then have the gall of blaming me for being vague.

    The longer this thread is going on the more obvious the PSL has nothing to offer and the reasons for the empty defences is because it fits into westerners petite-bourgoisie sensibilities of empty protesting and trade unionism as a subsitute of doing the hard work of actually figuring what went before and what should be done instead going forward. It requires susbtantive investigations and class analyses.

    You cannot answer these questions simply because the PSL has no answer for them otherwise you would have pointed them out. Instead you linked to things you have not read and called it a day, and then double down when called out on it.

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