196
The West Forgot How to Build. Now It's Forgetting Code (techtrenches.dev)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/programming@programming.dev
48 comments fedilink hide all child comments
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 10 points 4 months ago (15 children)

So how would I create such an "Open Source" model? They don't share the data used to create them do they? Let's not even get started on how much computing power I would need to train one of those things. These selfhosted models solve nothing except some data privacy issues. Sure you no longer send all your code to a shady AI company but you are still 100% dependent on them sharing their models.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 15 child comments
    •
  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    So how would I create such an “Open Source” model? They don’t share the data used to create them do they?

    No, and going by the OSI definition of "open source AI" they don't have to, acknowledging that the training material is often copyrighted and can't be shared.

    It's a strange definition of "open source", one where you're not actually allowed to see the source.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    The model is named Apertus – Latin for “open” – highlighting its distinctive feature: the entire development process, including its architecture, model weights, training data and methods, is openly accessible and fully documented.

    https://ethz.ch/en/news-and-events/eth-news/news/2025/09/press-release-apertus-a-fully-open-transparent-multilingual-language-model.html

    There is also a move into synthetic data and human trained so we will have to see where the training data goes copyright wise in the future

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [+] -7 points 4 months ago (12 children)

    Do you build your own Linux from scratch? If so why would you assume you can build an LLM from scratch?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 12 child comments
    •
  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (11 children)

    It's mad easy to build your own Linux from scratch in comparison to building an LLM. You can have your own distro running in like an hour. With buildroot you can have it in even less than that.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 11 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

    That doesn't sound like "from scratch"

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    I agree, but given the context of the discussion and the commonly accepted definition of Linux from Scratch, what else do you think they could have meant other than building a complete Linux based operating system from source?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (3 children)

    The thing that literally everything other than apparently Linux means when someone says building it from scratch?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    Does that actually match with the discussion in your opinion? The discussion about building open source projects? Does the information I provided not help in understanding my response?

    Are you being serious or just trying to be pedantic..?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Yes it does match the discussion. They were discussing creating an LLM, from scratch, and no one was implying hitting a button and having it get created automatically for them as being the level of difficulty that the process would entail.

    So really you're the one who took this off on a tangent.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago

    We seem to have a very different view of the discussion of "open source" and "open source models" above. I don't entirely see how you arrived there, but that's OK. I don't think I took it on a tangent at all. No biggie I guess it's just a forum.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [+] -6 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    I have no idea what you're talking about

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    ... Then why did you use it as an example?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] -2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Because the average person is not building Linux from scratch nor would they know how to

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    The average person wouldn't be building an open source LLM either. I don't think I follow. I was just saying that your comparison wasn't going to hit correctly at all due to how easy it actually is to build Linux and a full Linux distribution.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago*

    The average person wouldn’t be building an open source LLM either

    Yeah that's why I'm saying:

    Do you build your own Linux from scratch? If so why would you assume you can build an LLM from scratch?

    The OP is basically saying it's not really open source unless I can personally build it! Which I am saying I don't think is a requirement of open source software (your personal ability to compile software does not negate from it it's open sourceness)

    tbh I wouldn't have an idea on how to build either, they are way above my skill level, i have no idea how to make a linux distro either, but i'm certain most are open source

    Today, we’re launching Unsloth Studio (Beta): an open-source, no-code web UI for training, running and exporting open models in one unified local interface.

    https://unsloth.ai/docs/new/studio

    This was only recently released, maybe in the future we'll have training material uber compressed down in an open source format that anyone with the skill and knowledge can use and different 'distro' releases of LLM's, we already have tons of smaller models especially from European Universities and others

    The EuroHPC Joint Undertaking (JU) provides access to the computing time and support services offered by the EuroHPC AI Factories. The AI Factories are open to European users from various sectors, including industry, research, academia and public authorities.

    https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/ai-factories

    We are only like 3-4 years into AI going mainstream if that, afaik the heat death of the universe is at least 1000 years away, we have lots of time to work and improve on them, I can only wonder where they will be at in 100 years, so I try not to make any damning facebook boomer tier statements about the future

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent