148
yeah, I'm a centrist (thelemmy.club)
submitted 5 months ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[–] 22 points 5 months ago* (18 children)

For those that don't want to sound uneducated like @bearboiblake@pawb.social

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm

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  • [+] -12 points 5 months ago* (17 children)

    Thank you for sharing!

    Do you realize that what you shared doesn't argue that Marxism-Leninism is not authoritarian, but instead just reframes it as necessarily authoritarian?

    As in, it implies authoritarianism is necessary to achieve communism. Argue that it is good, necessary, be my guest, but it is authoritarian.

    I will leave you with an excerpt from the writing you shared which resonated with me deeply, and highlights essentially the root issue I have with MLs:

    A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon

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  • [–] 22 points 5 months ago (15 children)

    You didn't read the text, I can tell.

    Do you realize that what you shared doesn’t argue that Marxism-Leninism is not authoritarian,

    Duh, because we have a different understanding of authority.

    but instead just reframes it as necessarily authoritarian? As in, it implies authoritarianism is necessary to achieve communism. Argue that it is good, necessary, be my guest, but it is authoritarian.

    No, the text asks if organisation in the most abstract sense is possible without authority and highlights that with the advent of capitalism labour is a highly socialized process. It argues that authority in a socialist society takes on a different form.

    the root issue I have with MLs

    The root issue I have with libs is that they think you can simply vote capitalism away, when it's been demonstrated time and time again that you cant

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  • [+] -16 points 5 months ago (14 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 20 points 5 months ago* (13 children)

    I don't read and understand theory. I call anything I don't like authoritarian repeating imperialist propaganda blindly

    Ok stay ignorant

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  • [+] -16 points 5 months ago (12 children)

    Comrade, I think you have confused me for an enemy. MLs have a pretty decent argument that a transitional state is necessary to achieve communism. I understand all of that, and I've read more than my fair share of theory over the years.

    Just because someone disagrees with you, it does not mean that they are stupid, not reading, ignorant, etc. That is an extremely reactionary approach to criticism which prevents you from ever having to have your viewpoints truly challenged.

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  • [–] 20 points 5 months ago (11 children)

    I'm willing to be less antagonist in my responses, but yours make it very difficult to do so.

    I don't like wasting my energy on confidently wrong libs that misrepresent what is trying to be said in this community. When you misrepresent and think what is being said is:

    Marxism-Leninism isn’t authoritarian! It isn’t authoritarian because I said so. You can’t achieve shit without authoritarianism anyways! Even if you can achieve things without authority, words are inherently meaningless symbols for meanings which are constantly in flux, so who can really say where authoritarianism begins and ends. Either way, you’re wrong and also an ILLITERATE LIAR who I will accuse of being a lib for good measure”

    Then I seriously doubt:

    I’ve read more than my fair share of theory over the years.

    Maybe another comrade is more patient. I'll see myself out

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  • [+] -15 points 5 months ago (10 children)

    You are relentlessly behaving in a very chauvinistic and reactionary way. I don't need to agree with every word Engels wrote to be a communist. Marx, Engels, et al. aren't prophets sharing mystical secrets from on high. They were intelligent and visionary but ultimately flawed humans capable of mistakes. You should not treat theory as your bible.

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  • [–] 17 points 5 months ago (9 children)

    You are relentlessly behaving in a very chauvinistic and reactionary way.

    No U

    I don’t need to agree with every word Engels wrote to be a communist. Marx, Engels, et al. aren’t prophets sharing mystical secrets from on high.

    No of course you don't have to. At least have the decency to not misrepresent it.

    You should not treat theory as your bible.

    You should not view yourself as the next coming of Christ that is here to be a prophet on how to achieve a state and classless society when you haven't done your homework but still would like to talk to those that have

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  • [+] -15 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (8 children)

    I've tried my best to be nice and try to communicate with you through the slew of insults you just keep hurling, but I have a limit. At the end of the day, you're acting like nothing but a bully.

    Solidarity forever.

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  • [–] 16 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Bruh we can all see you were an asshole the whole time lol

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  • [+] -7 points 5 months ago* (3 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 16 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    No, you're an asshole because you're being smug, rude and passive aggressive.

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  • [+] -10 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    And the people who I was replying to, doesn't that make them assholes, too? They were more smug, more rude, more aggressive than I was, by far. Does your criticism apply to them, also, or only to the one person you disagree with?

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  • [–] 14 points 5 months ago* (2 children)

    I can tell you're not as communist as you like to think because this is how you react to having your uninformed political notions criticized. You would never survive a regular organizing discussion on hexbear.

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  • [+] -6 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Yes, politely replying repeatedly while getting called a lib and being told I didn't read some text I clearly read and just being browbeat again and again is truly the pinnacle of political critique and leads to some very insightful debates. Give me a fucking break.

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  • [+] -12 points 5 months ago

    I agree wholeheartedly with you, but maybe this was exactly their point ? I hope so because, otherwise, it's a pretty narrow sighted argument... Let's give them the benefit of the doubt anyway ^^

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