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Should cash stay alive to enable "private" transactions? (thelemmy.club)
submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by to c/privacy@lemmy.ml
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For example: in Canada, the bank accounts of those who protested were literally frozen (for simply speaking out or being critical) and talks of potential CBDCs (aka. used to deduct funds from one's account as a fine) whilst considering on abolishing cash altogether.

The alternative (for now at least) may be Crypto (online) until they consider that "illegal" in the future penalizing those who are using it, framing that as money laundering or tax evasion, whilst pushing their propaganda of "tap & go is safe & convenient".

The answers are divided between:

  • "Cash is King" (it allows anonymous or "private" transactions between you and the merchant)
  • "Contactless" (convenient, but your purchases & transactions are monitored by the state)

Cash is apparently the last bastion of "anonymous" transactions where it doesn't appear on one's statement and one gets to keep their money without the state deducting it from their account since a nation's central bank has monopoly over CBDCs and one's funds.

That's not even the end of it: them trying to make BTC or equivalent illegal by making CBDCs the default replacing gold overnight, it would mean all those bills you have are worthless. At this point, the only payment method is CBDCs that are linked to one's digital ID.

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[–] 12 points 5 months ago (16 children)

Monero XMR is the last bastion of "anonymous" transactions. The issue is actually obtaining it privately.

They're going to tax/fine you however they want. This is already reality. Its no different from having a bank account or making transfers via Paypal or Zelle. Our currency is already heavily digitized and centralized by governments. Transitioning to CBDCs would just be making the back-end more robust, which I'm personally in favor for. The technology for this has been worked on for about a decade now.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    A CBDC would give the government more control over your money. They have a lot of control now, but there is at least a middle man that the government has to compel to comply. With a CBDC, the government would be able to allow/disallow any transaction. Right now, they would have to convince Paypal or Zelle to invalidate a transaction. The on/off ramps to Monero and Bitcoin are the only locations with which the government can exert their power over those currencies. While Bitcoin is not private, it can be a good tool for privacy if used correctly. Cash, however, is still the most private. So I'll just keep slipping quarters in the keyboard to pay for my online purchases.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (5 children)

    Bubba, any intermediary is going to instantly comply with the government laws. They can already allow/disallow any transaction, freeze your account etc. Shit the banks and payment companies we use are likely way more compliant and strict than if it was directly operated by the government because the government is being defunded and breaking down.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    So you're betting your privacy on government inefficiency. You do you.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    Not any intermediary. You can still buy/sell crypto and goods using darknet markets and dead drops. Worst case scenario, you'll be hiding Tide laundry detergent in public restrooms.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    Transitioning to CBDCs would just be making the back-end more robust

    What exactly "transition to CBDCs" means is kind of ambiguous, but the way it's looking is that what we're going to get is licensing of privately issued stablecoins, which then increasingly get used behind the scenes in payments infrastructure. They passed a regulatory framework for this last year in the US and things have been progressing since then.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (4 children)

    I don't know because no major central gov has made one. Stablecoins arent CBDCs.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (3 children)

    Don't they fill the same role? What would the practical differences be? They compete for basically the same market anyway, so it's worth thinking about what system is likely to become the standard.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    My bad, I think I misread your comment, but yeah for the end-user it would be basically like what we have now already with digitized USD, perhaps more useful, since payment processors could allow you to send it on a blockchain and pay with VISA. The way I'm viewing CBDC's is a hopefully more robust upgrade on SWIFT.

    Biggest difference is it would be a currency actually printed by the treasury on a blockchain instead of backed by dollars held by a mysterious company based in the carribean (Tether) or an American FinTech company (USDC), or algorithmically pegged by the native blockchain token (USDS/DAI). If public, it would mean money printing would be a lot more transparent, but I seriously doubt a CBDC would be on a public blockchain. It might be easier/faster for banks to do REPO loans and crediting accounts in emergencies. Theoretically, it makes UBI feasible too.

    To be honest, I'm far more interested in what a BRICS CBDC would look like. The Unit would end the petrodollar.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I think they will stick with companies like USDC and just keep a leash on them. These stablecoins have freeze functions, the government can take charge of those if they want, and it's potentially a major source of demand for US treasuries in an environment where US debt keeps looking like a worse bet to everyone, since the legislation mandates full reserves and specifies what those reserves can be denominated in.

    Not that any of this is especially a good thing imo. The value of crypto is permissionless money, stablecoins are not that and have centralized controls, at least the popular ones the law approves of.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Practically, I agree with you but the definition of a Central Bank Digital Currency is a currency issued by the country's treasury. Maybe they come up with some hybrid scheme where the Fed will credit Circle's accounts and then they print more USDC, but that would for sure require legislation and be an immense responsibility given to a private company.

    DAI/USDS are what you're looking for in a permission-less stablecoin, but unfortunately the founder has back peddled to chase making money over principles. I believe folks have been turning towards a project called https://www.liquity.org/ but its no where the size and pedigree that MakerDAO was.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

    actually obtaining it privately.

    Seriously have you considered mining it? You mine Monero with CPU, not GPU. The algo is literally designed so that GPUs and ASICs offer no cost advantage.

    You can mine in a decentralized, distributed pool with distributed payouts... from the GUI wallet , no less!

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