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Fuel rationing looming unless Hormuz supply resumes, experts warn
(www.thetimes.com)
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this post was submitted on 17 Mar 2026
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Wow, very hostile. Honestly not unexpected after getting caught on some pretty bald-faced lies.
You went from denying rubber existed in 1880 to conceding it was "0.2% of GDP" in one message (not to mind 0.2% is a number pulled directly from your ass alongside being irrelevant to the point). You went from "European banks and shipping insurance wasn't a thing" to "Deutsche Bank is a national bank" like that refutes anything.
I'd be embarrassed too don't worry I don't hold it against you.
However after all this, you still have not engaged the core point: Germany and Italy were integrated into the imperial core even before they had direct colonies. Capital, trade, finance, shipping, insurance, markets, all structured by colonial extraction. It's really not that complicated. It is basic historical materialism.
The fact that you cannot grasp a systemic analysis, and instead lash out when basic facts are corrected, tells me everything I need to know. Seems I hit the nail on the head as they say (bullseye). 🤣
Learn to read the context when discussing, it is really like chatting with a robot..
CONTEXT: Germany 1880, trying to establishing the relevance to national wealth of rubber imported from colonies.
COMPLETE EXPLANATION: do the math, in 1880 we are before the invention of pneumatic bicycle tire, before the automobile industry, before rubber plantation in Congo and Asia. Global production is 11K tons, almost entirely from the Empire of Brazil, not a colony of a European country, most of which goes to Britain, US and France. At 1880 that is less then 0.2% of GDP for Germany. To me in the context of establishing the reason for Germany wealth being driven by colonial exploitation that is nothing. If for you 0.2%, 0% of which is from a colony, is worth discussing over then you are totally missing the point.
CONTEXT: original quote "European banks, shipping, insurance". We are talking about the system put in place to facilitate exploitation of colonies.
COMPLETE EXPLANATION: Stressing "European". Europe was not a thing. Shipping insurance was a thing since medieval age. Was Florence banking system and Genoa shipping insurance in 1300 put in place for exploitation of colonial empires? No, it was put in place to facilitate trade. My mistake in assuming you meant a unified "European" system of exploitation as the alternative was just silly. If you really meant banks and insurance then good for you, on a national level that was a thing and totally irrelevant to the conversation.
CONTEXT: you said "British and French colonies supplied cheap cotton, rubber, minerals". I asked you which mineral. Your quote is not a quote, I never said that. The context is still colonial exploitation, and by asking which mineral I have implied there is no mineral import from British or French colonies relevant to the conversation.
COMPLETE EXPLANATION: The only mineral not from a European country in your list was tin. Germany had tin deposits on the border with Bohemia, but most of the Tin was from Cornwall. So most of what was true for rubber is true for Tin we are talking a very small portion of GDP most of which was from Britain. The rest was from Malaya
The fact that you cannot grasp a contextual analysis and instead search for futile points to strawman when your points are trash tell me everything I need to know. Seems I hit the nail on the head as they say (bullseye). 🤣
Moving the goalposts is not context. It is deflection. Your original claim was that Germany industrialized without colonial benefit. That is false. The global system Germany operated within was structured by colonial extraction. Even if rubber was "0.2% of GDP" (which is again straight from your ass), it still spectacularly misses the point being made. Capital accumulation is not about raw input percentages. It is about super-profits, protected markets, financial infrastructure, and reinvestment capacity. Colonial trade provided all of that. Isolating one commodity used as an example to dismiss the system is not the dunk you seem to think it is.
Brazil in 1880 was not "not a colony". It was a semi-colonial economy, formerly Portuguese, integrated into the British imperial economic sphere. Informal empire counts. The cotton, rubber, and minerals that fed European industry came from conditions of unequal exchange. Prices set in London. Shipping controlled by British firms. Contracts enforced by gunboats. That is the material relation. To pretend that "not a formal colony" means "not extraction" is to ignore how imperialism and colonialism actually works.
No one said "Europe" was a unified state. The point was that German capital operated within a European imperial circuit. British shipping, Lloyd's insurance, French ports, German industrial demand: all part of the same extraction-based system. To isolate "national" banks from that circuit is methodological nationalism. It ignores how capital actually moves. Deutsche Bank financed foreign trade. German firms used British insurance. German goods moved on British ships. That is not "irrelevant". That is the system.
Cornwall was embedded in the British imperial mining complex. Its profits relied on colonial capital, colonial technology, and colonial markets. The same goes for Spanish iron, Swedish copper, Bohemian manganese. These were not isolated national industries. They operated within a European extractive circuit built on colonial power. Cheap labor from the periphery kept input costs down. Colonial infrastructure lowered shipping costs. Imperial finance provided the credit. That is how European mining stayed profitable.
Germany directly benefited from access to these mines. German steel used Spanish iron. German machinery used Swedish copper. German industry used Cornish tin. The prices, the availability, the reliability of supply, all shaped by imperial relations. To treat these as "just European" inputs is to ignore the global division of labor that made them cheap and accessible. Germany did not need its own colonies to benefit from colonial extraction. It just needed to participate in the system. And it did.
You keep isolating variables to avoid the systemic argument. One commodity. One year. One border. That is cherry-picking to protect a preconceived conclusion.
At this point, continuing is futile. You have shown you will move the goalposts, dismiss facts that inconvenience you, and lash out when basic history is corrected. If you are not willing to engage the argument in good faith, there is no point in further comments.
TL;DR baby's first dialectical and historical materialist breakdown: Germany in 1880 did not industrialize in a vacuum. It operated within a global capitalist system structured by colonial extraction. Raw materials from the periphery (cotton, rubber, minerals) fed German industry at prices shaped by imperial power. Protected colonial markets absorbed German exports. European finance, shipping, and insurance networks built on extraction facilitated German trade. Super-profits from the colonial system funded reinvestment and innovation in the core. Germany benefited from this system even before it had direct colonies. It helped sustain the system through demand, finance, and participation in the imperial circuit. That is how the material relations worked.
Also ai badjacketing me because you can't make a coherent point is cringe and you should grow up. The fact you talk so arrogantly on a topic you are so woefully uneducated about is embarrassing and honestly you should be embarrassed, but that's a good thing. You should channel this embarrassment I hope you feel into learning before speaking to avoid it in the future.
Ok, you won, my original claim that "Germany industrialized without colonial benefit" is false. I am defeated. I will claim that "Germany industrialized with minimal colonial benefit where minimal represent an economical input that is less then 5% of GDP by 1880".
then I will stop this charade. Have a nice day, king of worthless discussion
You cannot even graciously admit you were wrong. You have to make another bs claim pulled straight from your ass and cover it in sarcasm. "Minimal colonial benefit" defined by an arbitrary GDP percentage you just invented.
This was never about winning or losing. I was hoping that from exposure you might decide to do some research instead of spreading colonial apologism and "smarter Europe" nonsense that borders on race science.
Genuinely, if you just take the time to read the works I recommended and apply a proper analysis to history, you will be much more informed. Less likely to be embarrassed. Less likely to lash out when basic facts are corrected.
I wish you the best in growing up and finishing your education. Hopefully it broadens your horizons.
I am so embarrassed in front of your clearly superior knowledge. You made so many unbiased relevant defining points tonight that I really struggle to reconstruct my flawed vision of global socioeconomic dynamics.
Childish.
Fucking white trash dumbass.
The "Empire of Brazil" was controlled by ex Portuguese nobility and Portuguese bourgeois, in your bullshit time frame of 1880, Brazil was """""independent""""""" for only 55 years which is not enough time to recuperate from the colonial process, fuck slavery was abolished in 1888 by A FUCKING PRINCESS. The entire Brazilian nobility was trash European nobility that fled Napoleon.
Was the Empire of Brazil political autonomy controlled by Portugal in 1880? If the answer is no, then it was not a colony. Not that difficult to grasp. Was the US under Andrew Jackson a British colony? No, even if the local elite was European British elite of origin for the most part. Pedro II of Brazil considered himself Brazilian, born under an independent Brazil. Foreigner according to Portuguese law, educated in Brazil, with no loyalty to Portugal, he is considered one of the most important figure in Brazilian history.