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Proton has ties to Israel. What's a safe alternative? (lemmy.world)
submitted 7 months ago by to c/privacy@lemmy.ml
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Proton VPN/mail. It's often recommended as being safe, but I'm not so sure.

It has servers in Israel. Ties to Israel are never a good thing. Palantir, Epstein, etc are tied to Israel, and Israel also is known for its surveillance. It is also true that it's completely legal there for them to access and monitor any and all information that passes through VPNs or networks there.

I'm looking for a safe alternative that's privacy-conscious and isn't linked to Israel. Both mail and vpn (it's fine if they're separate). Please let me know if you guys know.

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[–] 45 points 7 months ago (25 children)

Having servers in Israel means you are materially tied to them now? Making this jump to liken it to Epstein or Palantir is kinda wild imo

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    Having servers in Israel means you are materially tied to them now?

    Yes, absolutely. Profiting from servers under genocidal control is literally being materially tied to genocide.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    Like I hear what you're saying. I'm on the fuck Israel train as much as everyone but how does them hosting servers in that region support genocide? Are they giving money to the Israeli government? Defending the IDF?

    Like there is McDonald's in Israel does that mean McDonald's is complicit in genocide? (I actually don't know if they give money to support Israel but my point is more broad than that and might be a bad example)

    Edit: Also for the McD's example I guess they make money off of Israelis but I still posit that is different to a large degree with being complicit in genocide.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    hosting servers in that region support genocide?

    yes, it's occupied land, it's not like those servers are in tunnels in Gaza, paying fees to Palestinians

    It's the same in many places, and more often than not israel is held up as a special example

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 7 months ago

    It's not about supporting genocide that I'm concerned about over here per se (though it's obviously not a good look), it's the fact that the region is known for surveillance through any comms that enter it.

    Unrelated, but yes, people against genocide literally boycott any businesses that operate in Israel, including McDonalds. BDS movement, for example.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 7 months ago

    They don't need to be materially linked; they are digitally linked. Israel allows it's communication and intelligence agencies complete legal access to any communications through VPNs that operate in it's area.

    I don't want that surveillance.

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (16 children)

    Would you buy a volkswagen in the 1940s?

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (15 children)

    Could you explain why this is the same?

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (14 children)

    In one case you have a company tied to a nazi regime, in the other case you have a company tied to a nazi regime. Hope this helps

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    Proton has servers in 127 countries, including Cuba, Russia, Venezuela... do they all count as ties?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Yes, but afaik they are not nazis nor are involved in the kind of genocidal actions israel is

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Proton has servers in both Russia and Ukraine, and neither means Proton has ties with their governments. If you want to expand an Israel boycott to anyone doing business with any company from Israel then ok, but the word "ties" seems to imply some involvement or complicity with a government/regime/ideology, like they are connected to anything said place is doing.

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  • [+] -2 points 7 months ago (7 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (6 children)

    Sure bro, the country that ended nazi germany is actually nazi.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    USSR helped end Nazi Germany but nice revisionism lmao 🤡 Current day russia is 100% fash

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    Helped? Helped who actually? Who was the main combatent that was helped?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Regardless of your opinion of 1940s Russia, don’t you think countries change over time?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Everything can change. But i dont think (and im totally open to changing my mind upon seeing arguments) russia became nazi. People who say this usually look at fascism from a moral, not a scientific point of view

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You're here comparing Venezuela and Cuba to nazis, get out you pig

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    I’m here saying Proton has servers in 127 countries and they are widely different, so how do you decide to which ones they are "tied" (protip: They are tied to none, getting an exit node in a country benefit users from the countries next to it, and it also opens that country's geolocked content to the world). Get a brain.

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