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Its not looking good.. (thelemmy.club)
submitted 8 months ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[–] 7 points 8 months ago (14 children)

When you're denying China's system as socialist, despite what Chinese say and the reasons they give, it points to a distrust of Chinese people themselves.

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  • [–] -4 points 8 months ago (13 children)

    That makes not sense at all, people in China are diverse and numerous with many different opinions and experiences. Don't just band them together as if they are all the same.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (12 children)

    I didn't, I simply stated that the overwhelming majority of Chinese citizens support their socialist system and consider it as such. Against them, you claim that private ownership is somehow principle despite being relegated to secondary industries and medium/small firms, and claim that the bourgeoisie are in charge of the state despite evidence to the contrary.

    On what basis do you believe what you do?

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  • [+] -7 points 8 months ago (11 children)

    Dont move the goal post. You are trying to prove my comment somehow dehumanizes the entirety of the Chinese population, how does that make sense? When did I say or treat the WHOLE chinese population as less than human with my words?

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (10 children)

    I'm not moving the goal posts, I'm explaining why your comments are seen as dehumanizing and chauvanist. It's tied directly to your distrust of statistics coming from China and your distrust of China's system being what it actually is. If you can give credible evidence supporting your views, then you can clear your name, if you're just going to say "it's obvious" then it's clear that you don't actually have such evidence, and that it's likely pure chauvanism.

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  • [+] -7 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    So if I disagree that China is socialist it automatically means I think Chinese aren't people? My distrust of the statics is directly tied to the chienese government not the people. It make not make sense to you but it is possible to disagree with the government of a country without dehumanizing its people, I disagree with the government of the USA for example, and often my own country's.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago* (8 children)

    If you disagree with what the overwhelming majority of Chinese people say about their own system out of your distrust for the Chinese government, and have no credible reasons to do so, then yes, it's chauvanism and dehumanizes Chinese citizens. It means they can't think for themselves, in your eyes, and are just "brainwashed" by "evil."

    Explain your views, why isn't China socialist despite public ownership being principle and the working classes controlling the state?

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  • [+] -7 points 8 months ago* (7 children)

    Does lemmy.ml represent the majority of the Chinese people? Do you? If you are talking statistics, that comes from the government not directly the people. And disagreeing does not dehumanize people, that is such an authoritarian view I can't even. You disagree with the majority of the western world about China, does that mean you are dehumanizing them?

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago* (6 children)

    Western organizations have found that over 90% of the population approve the government, which is shown to be consistent and accurate. This isn't coming from the government, but from western orgs directly asking Chinese people. Further, despite evidence that the government of China isn't lying about public ownership being principle, and the transparent form of democracy we can view, you still don't trust the government's claims either!

    I do disagree with what the majority of the west says about a different country that they've mythologized for centuries, yes. That's not dehumanizing the west, it's acknowledging a different class interest. You're disagreeing with what Chinese people say about themselves, and are framing it as them being brainwashed into doing so, incapable of thinking for themselves.

    Explain your views, why isn’t China socialist despite public ownership being principle and the working classes controlling the state?

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  • [+] -7 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    That blogsite doesnt have direct links to the sources, do you?

    So you can disagree but I can't, interesting point of view.

    Mind you, you have only talked about government approval so far, not perception of the state as socialist or not. But let me entertain you and pretend that is true (even though it is absurd). Lets also pretend that disagreeing with someone (only when it is me, you can apparently) dehumanizes people. 80% of the chinese people believe the country is a socialist country, disagreeing with them constitutes disagreeing with 80% of the country (by your flawed logic), does that me I dehumanized the ENTIRETY of the chinese people?

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    It does have direct links, like to Harvard here. There's a major difference with disagreeing with everything the majority of Chinese people say about themselves, and with disagreeing with what the majority of Statesians say about Chinese people. Disagreement itself isn't wrong, it's disagreeing with easily verifiable statistics and facts regarding ownership and support.

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  • [+] -7 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Nothing about a country with over one billion people with many different ethnicities and continent sized land is easility verifiable.

    "The views expressed in the Ash Center Policy Briefs Series are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect those of the John F. Kennedy School of Government or of Harvard Universi- ty" so okay, not really Havard's opinion or name behind the study

    "While no single survey can adequately address all aspects of satisfaction levels in China, this brief identifies two important yet contrasting findings." Seems your own article disapproves of being used by itself to form opinions.

    "Yet long-term, publicly-available, and nationally-representative surveys in mainland China are so rare that it is difficult to know how ordinary Chinese citizens feel about their government." Very insteresting "Although state censorship and propaganda are widespread" gotta love when your conclusion needs to mention this.

    All in all no details for the actual methodology nor about the so called private company that perfomed the survey (since the institute apparently only created the survey itself).

    Well, this is enough for me today, not gonna bother replying futher since you seem to be trying to waste my time and 'beat' me by tiring me with nonsense.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago

    “The views expressed in the Ash Center Policy Briefs Series are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect those of the John F. Kennedy School of Government or of Harvard Universi- ty” so okay, not really Havard’s opinion or name behind the study

    Published by Harvard.

    "While no single survey can adequately address all aspects of satisfaction levels in China, this brief identifies two important yet contrasting findings.” Seems your own article disapproves of being used by itself to form opinions.

    Correct, which is why many others were linked. It doesn't mean the data is inaccurate, either, just that no study can be comprehensive.

    “Yet long-term, publicly-available, and nationally-representative surveys in mainland China are so rare that it is difficult to know how ordinary Chinese citizens feel about their government.” Very insteresting “Although state censorship and propaganda are widespread” gotta love when your conclusion needs to mention this.

    It mentions this because it's a western org presenting it, one hostile to China, admitting popular support.

    All in all no details for the actual methodology nor about the so called private company that perfomed the survey (since the institute apparently only created the survey itself).

    Well, this is enough for me today, not gonna bother replying futher since you seem to be trying to waste my time and ‘beat’ me by tiring me with nonsense.

    This is the peak of your logic, you endlessly move goalposts, tie yourself into pretzels logically, and even lie to avoid acknowledging that Chinese people can speak for themselves.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago*

    Lmao, reducing Jason Hickel, a world renowned economic anthropologist, to 'just a blogsite' is hilarious.

    Just a quick background from his wiki

    Jason Edward Hickel[2] (born 1982) is a Swazi economic anthropologist, academic and democratic eco-socialist.[3] He is a professor at the Institute of Environmental Science & Technology (ICTA-UAB) at the Autonomous University of Barcelona,[4] a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, a visiting senior fellow at the International Inequalities Institute at the London School of Economics, and was the Chair of Global Justice and the Environment at the University of Oslo.[5] He serves on the Climate and Macroeconomics Roundtable of the US National Academy of Sciences.[6]

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