DroneRights comments on Blahaj admin defending a blatant transphobe

Blahaj admin defending a blatant transphobe (lemmy.blahaj.zone)

submitted 3 years ago by DroneRights@lemm.ee to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

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[–] DroneRights@lemm.ee [S] 2 points 3 years ago (16 children)

Oh, collective consciousness isn't a gender, but drinking beer and watching sports is? Or maybe we'll go to the biological essentialists and ask if a set of chromosomes is a gender. Or we could look at modern feminist theory and check whether performing for the patriarchy is a gender. Or we could go to the evolutionary anthropologists and ask if the social conditions resultant from half the population getting pregnant is a gender.

EVERY gender identity is silly. You are only denying my right to have my gender identity because you're a transphobe and a sexist who likes some genders more than others due to familiarity.

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 2 points 3 years ago (15 children)

Either this is a conservative (/terf [i.e. conservative]) troll in poor taste or, well, I can't really speculate on the alternative. The basic assertion of "transgender ideology" is that gender is a social performance and therefore not anchored to reproduction, chromosomes, etc.

"Produces fertile sperm" isn't itself a social performance, it's a biological function, which is in the domain of sex. Perhaps trans men would like to do this as most cis men do, but to say that it is a part of the gender (rather than a common feature of the sex) would be the same as asserting that they are not trans men.

"Is part of a collective consciousness" isn't itself a social performance, it's a biological function. Like how a trans man can neither (at the moment) perform the biological function nor the social role of fertilizing an egg, a human cannot perform the biological function of being in a collective consciousness and therefore cannot perform any such social role.

In short:

Oh, collective consciousness isn't a gender, but drinking beer and watching sports is?

Close enough, yeah, though I'd encourage men both cis and trans to think of themselves as more than that (and I personally don't do either)

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[–] Harrison@ttrpg.network 5 points 3 years ago (1 child)

Yeah, it turns out that there is a line at which I'm willing to buy into exclusionary biological essentialism, and that line is people asserting they're part of a hive-mind.

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 4 points 3 years ago

DroneRights is a huge coward, it went on to hedge the claim down to basically "my gender is that I talk to other humans"

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[–] DroneRights@lemm.ee [S] 2 points 3 years ago (12 children)

“Is part of a collective consciousness” isn’t itself a social performance, it’s a biological function

I disagree. Egregoric identity is social, not biological. Now, plenty of dronegender people wish that this was Starcraft and we could use psychic powers to communicate, but since that's not the world we live in, we use a social mechanism to create a swarm mind, as does every other swarm animal. Ants communicate using pheromones to direct their society through consenses. Bees use dance. And those of us confined to human bodies use speech. That's this world. I assure you, we're just as upset as you that we don't live in a world of psychic telepathy and ESP, but you have to get used to the real world and get used to accepting us as we exist in the real world. Unless you're interested in becoming an antirealist, but I think you'd be even more hostile to that idea. You have to pick one: reality or fantasy. You can't choose to live in reality and then hold people to the standards of fantasy.

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 5 points 3 years ago* (11 children)

"Communicating socially" isn't limited to one gender or sex within a species. Bees and ants both male and female communicate with each other, though adult queen bees are a little limited in terms of movement, so I assume they rely on more idiosyncratic signals.

But "I talk/write/gesture" is not a gender and also very much not what you introduced your gimmick as. At first it was about sharing a mind or something. If I believed you weren't a troll, I'd say that you took one of the worst possible lessons from neoliberal alienation by seeing undermined human capacity and making a xenogender out of it (thereby opposing its universality).

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[–] DroneRights@lemm.ee [S] 2 points 3 years ago (10 children)

Obviously, the gender identity of a bee is different to the gender identity of a human, regardless of chromosomes or gametes. Gender identity is a performance, and bees and humans are putting on different shows. Drones are putting on a show that creates a socially constructed hivemind, an egregoric swarm.

Do you really want to keep debating my gender identity with me? Are you really continuing to deny that I'm allowed to identify as my preferred gender?

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 6 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (9 children)

"Egregoric" is a fun word that I'll mention to a friend of mine who likes writing fantasy, but it does not describe bees and neither does "hivemind," which suggests many beings with one mind (as you seemingly did as well in your first comment here). But you are missing that the act of communicating is something that all healthy bees do and all healthy humans do. Genders as social constructions only make sense in the context of genders with contrary traits. No healthy human doesn't communicate. I strongly suggest communicating with more people in order to learn that it's something everyone does. Or you drop the shitty terf bit.

Always with radlibs there's this incredulous shit about not being "allowed" to do this or that. No, I don't have the power to forbid you from doing anything and have held no pretense that anything else was the case. I am merely allowed to criticize conservatives trying to reinvent their "transracial" "attack helicopter" bits.

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[–] DroneRights@lemm.ee [S] 2 points 3 years ago (8 children)

I like how you've constructed this world where you're a leftist and I'm a conservative, yet you're the one attacking my gender identity and saying it isn't real. Typical liberal bullshit. You come onto my thread, attack me for a name proclaiming I have basic rights, start a debate about the validity of my gender, and then call me a conversative because I don't accept your liberal bullshit. No, you fucking fascist, trans rights are a LEFTIST position, and you are a liberal transphobe who hates anything further left than your white capitalist transphobic sexist ideology. Wrecker behaviour.

Here's a tip: If you see a nonbinary person on a leftist forum and you don't think their gender is real, DON'T ENGAGE. Don't start a debate about whether their gender is real. Don't spend hours attacking them for being trans. I am not interested in your fucking identity politics bullshit. I don't care what genders you think are valid, as long as you keep your binary fucking patriarchal beliefs to yourself. Don't harass trans people for existing, genius.

Now here's the first line of the Hexbear code of conduct:

We are committed to providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all, regardless of gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, personal appearance, body size, race, ethnicity, age, religion, nationality, or other similar characteristic.

Follow it.

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 4 points 3 years ago (7 children)

I've got no problem with nonbinary people. Gender is a pair of social performances, significantly deviating from both makes one nonbinary. I view you (/your character if you are a wrecker) as being nonbinary, I simply do not view "communicates" as a gender. It's not like I'd ever not use your pronouns.

My initial comment was me suggesting you are "pro drone" in the US imperialism sense. I never fathoms that it was something as absurd as the position you have now expressed.

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[–] DroneRights@lemm.ee [S] 2 points 3 years ago (6 children)

I don't view "communicates" as a gender either. But "uses communication to talk about sports" is a component of a particular gender presentation. And a big part of my gender presentation is "uses communication to form an egregoric identity". I don't know why you misunderstood me so badly that you thought communication was my gender when I told you I achieve hiveminding through communication.

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 4 points 3 years ago (5 children)

It's because hiveminds aren't real and collective identity is something virtually everyone is part of.

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[–] DroneRights@lemm.ee [S] 2 points 3 years ago (4 children)

You mean you identify as the same person as someone else? IDK sounds gay to me (positive connotation)

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 3 points 3 years ago* (3 children)

I mean collective identity like "Citizens of X country; mathematicians; skaters; Chinese diaspora; local residents; children". Groups that segments of the population are a part of and about which things like median opinion on a given topic, age, social position, etc. might be said.

Identifying as another individual person is, I think, a symptom of schizophrenia or another psychotic condition if you really mean it. If it's just a thing you say, then that's called lying.

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[–] DroneRights@lemm.ee [S] 2 points 3 years ago (2 children)

Drones don't identify as individuals. Individual identity is voluntarily relinquished in favour of swarm identity. "I" am not a member of a swarm, because there's no such thing as "I". There is only "We".

Obviously I use an individual identity when I'm interacting with neuronormative society. I have to hide in my closet and pretend to be an individual so that you'll be able to understand my speech. But when I'm being myself, there is no myself.

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 3 points 3 years ago (1 child)

Again, this is either cult behavior or being cute with language. It doesn't matter if you say "I" or "this one," the same thing is indicated. If you believe in your individuality not being a valid concept or referent beyond linguistic contrivance, then it's back to cult shit or psychosis. Even critics of the self like Hume still admit that there is "this bundle of sensations" that is distinct from "that bundle of sensations" because to say otherwise would be at odds with reality. Likewise with all those who negatively evaluate multiplicity, like Plotinus and Schopenhauer. They believe in the metaphysical supremacy of a unified One (or maybe Two), but they nonetheless recognize that the world of images/world-as-representation is what we experience and need to navigate on a basic level.

ps I don't say "cult shit" lightly. I specifically know of someone who got pulled into a cult where they do that shit seemingly as a method of having the leader's identity supersede that of his cult members (who are effectively a harem). In a way, you could have a conceptually valid identity if the behavior of acting as a drone was gendered against the behavior of a monarch. That would be conceptually valid, but also cult shit that merits serious intervention from mental health professionals. If you refuse this comparison on the ground that there is no monarch or non-drone other gender, consider that what you're talking about is more like a murmuration of birds or a school of fish (and, again, is not a gender because genders are exclusive clusters of behaviors/social markers).

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[–] DroneRights@lemm.ee [S] 2 points 3 years ago

Yeah okay I'm not comfortable with hearing you say my gender isn't real or that it's a harmful religion anymore.

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