682
Just vote to change things. (lemmy.ml)
submitted 9 months ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
304 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 66 points 9 months ago (21 children)

You should definitely vote but it shouldn't be the only thing you do.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • hideshow 21 child comments
    •
  • [+] -12 points 9 months ago (20 children)

    No

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 20 child comments
    •
  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Yes. Voting is useful for showing solidarity with the movement and demonstrating how the current system doesn't work. Just because it isn't capable of causing any meaningful change doesn't mean it's useless.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Just because it isn't capable of causing any meaningful change doesn't mean it's useless.

    I see a lot of folks on .ml and .hexbear not understand this part. It's like all change must be meaningful, and if it's not then it's not worth our time.

    Lenin taught us that we need to build within the system of the masses in order to tip them over, not overturn it outright. There is a specific time and place for when change is the most impactful

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago

    Lenin's position on integrating with the masses meant running working class parties in opposition to establishment parties, ie voting PSL over DNC. The vanguard's task is to become a party that the working class puts their full support behind, so that when revolution does happen, the vanguard can serve as the spearpoint to direct the masses in one unified direction and crush the capitalist state, replacing it with a socialist one.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [+] 0 points 9 months ago (16 children)
    [removed by mod]
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 16 child comments
    •
  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (13 children)

    Badjacketing is bad. Don't do that.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 13 child comments
    •
  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago (12 children)

    You're right, I dont know that they are a psyop. I do, however, know that the position of 'voting is not worthwhile if you are a leftist' that they are taking above is the same position that many psyops would like to have in the minds of leftists. Put more simply, what might they have said differently if they were a psyop? Nothing, I presume.

    It is better to root out psyop talking points that diminish our ability to form a collective voice, than it is to allow foolish notions like 'dont vote' to continue in our spaces.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 12 child comments
    •
  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    Voting doesn't do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it's very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can't magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting.

    If you want to argue against that, then do so, don't badjacket.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 11 child comments
    •
  • [–] -4 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    Im literally just telling folks to not engage in the same behavior that the fascists hope we engage in.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
    •
  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    Fascists don't care if we vote, what they care about is if we organize. Now that the spoils of imperialism are drying up, fascism is rising, and the super-exploitation we inflict on the global south is turning more inward. What fascists are scared of is working class organizing and building actual power.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] -4 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Fascists spend hundreds of millions on each election cycle. Clearly they care

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Manufacturing consent every election cycle helps things go smoother. Voting is a pressure valve, not an actual way to enact systemic change in a system rigged by those it was set up to keep in power. The actual strength of the working class is in organizing, not in going along with a rigged system.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] -4 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    If you categorically discount the people in politics, our most visible rhetorical speakers, as being part of a consent manfactury, how do you suppose we will ever aquire the broad appeal necessary to build a large coalition of workers? Unions are not up to the task in 2025 (in part due to political decisions that have weakened them)

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    People in politics are part of that, but within the two major parties we have no allies, even partial. I already answered the solution partially back here, but here it is again:

    Voting doesn’t do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it’s very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can’t magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting.

    We need to organize. Unions aren't up to the task, sure, but creating a working class party like what PSL is doing, building them up, and integrating within the working class is how you can leverage that to tilt the system and even overthrow it if conditions are right for that.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [+] -6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    Okay, I think we are going to continue to disagree. I understand that your position is to support thr PSL in leu of either the DNC and GOP. I dont expect you to engage further. My final pushback is that PSL does not hold seats or win elections to my knowledge, and if they aren't holding seats, they are not serving an electoral function for us.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    PSL is growing as a party, organizes protests and other forms of activism, educates on theory and agitates via news programs. They have strong connections to other activist orgs like the ANSWER coalition. The fact that they do not hold seats or win elections does not mean they don't serve a function, they serve us far better than the DNC ever could despite being much smaller. They aren't a vanguard yet, but each year they grow and get closer to being one.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago
    1. I don’t care what fascists hope.
    2. If fascists say the sky is blue, does that make it a “fascist talking point,” and therefore isn’t blue? That’s just not how it works.
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent