▲ 682 ▼ Just vote to change things. (lemmy.ml) submitted 9 months ago by Twongo@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml 304 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] Dippy@beehaw.org 0 points 9 months ago (16 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 16 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 14 points 9 months ago (13 children) Badjacketing is bad. Don't do that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -1 points 9 months ago (12 children) You're right, I dont know that they are a psyop. I do, however, know that the position of 'voting is not worthwhile if you are a leftist' that they are taking above is the same position that many psyops would like to have in the minds of leftists. Put more simply, what might they have said differently if they were a psyop? Nothing, I presume. It is better to root out psyop talking points that diminish our ability to form a collective voice, than it is to allow foolish notions like 'dont vote' to continue in our spaces. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago (11 children) Voting doesn't do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it's very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can't magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting. If you want to argue against that, then do so, don't badjacket. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (10 children) Im literally just telling folks to not engage in the same behavior that the fascists hope we engage in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (8 children) Fascists don't care if we vote, what they care about is if we organize. Now that the spoils of imperialism are drying up, fascism is rising, and the super-exploitation we inflict on the global south is turning more inward. What fascists are scared of is working class organizing and building actual power. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (5 children) Fascists spend hundreds of millions on each election cycle. Clearly they care permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago (4 children) Manufacturing consent every election cycle helps things go smoother. Voting is a pressure valve, not an actual way to enact systemic change in a system rigged by those it was set up to keep in power. The actual strength of the working class is in organizing, not in going along with a rigged system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (3 children) If you categorically discount the people in politics, our most visible rhetorical speakers, as being part of a consent manfactury, how do you suppose we will ever aquire the broad appeal necessary to build a large coalition of workers? Unions are not up to the task in 2025 (in part due to political decisions that have weakened them) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (2 children) People in politics are part of that, but within the two major parties we have no allies, even partial. I already answered the solution partially back here, but here it is again: Voting doesn’t do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it’s very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can’t magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting. We need to organize. Unions aren't up to the task, sure, but creating a working class party like what PSL is doing, building them up, and integrating within the working class is how you can leverage that to tilt the system and even overthrow it if conditions are right for that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Dippy@beehaw.org -6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child) Okay, I think we are going to continue to disagree. I understand that your position is to support thr PSL in leu of either the DNC and GOP. I dont expect you to engage further. My final pushback is that PSL does not hold seats or win elections to my knowledge, and if they aren't holding seats, they are not serving an electoral function for us. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 9 months ago PSL is growing as a party, organizes protests and other forms of activism, educates on theory and agitates via news programs. They have strong connections to other activist orgs like the ANSWER coalition. The fact that they do not hold seats or win elections does not mean they don't serve a function, they serve us far better than the DNC ever could despite being much smaller. They aren't a vanguard yet, but each year they grow and get closer to being one. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ebolapie@lemmy.world -5 points 9 months ago (1 child) If they don't care if we vote why are they trying to make it illegal? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago* Voting is a pressure valve, its utility is in letting off steam. If they can consistently fix it so that the results are predictable, then it provides the illusion that the system is democratic. permalink fedilink source parent [–] davel@lemmy.ml 8 points 9 months ago I don’t care what fascists hope. If fascists say the sky is blue, does that make it a “fascist talking point,” and therefore isn’t blue? That’s just not how it works. permalink fedilink source parent [–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 9 months ago (1 child) I don’t know why you think you own the place when this is their Lemmy instance, while you're a guest here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -2 points 9 months ago I dont own the place. But neither does anyone in this comment thread, no one here is a mod on memes.ml, not that I should be expto know who owns what on a public forum permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 14 points 9 months ago (13 children) Badjacketing is bad. Don't do that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -1 points 9 months ago (12 children) You're right, I dont know that they are a psyop. I do, however, know that the position of 'voting is not worthwhile if you are a leftist' that they are taking above is the same position that many psyops would like to have in the minds of leftists. Put more simply, what might they have said differently if they were a psyop? Nothing, I presume. It is better to root out psyop talking points that diminish our ability to form a collective voice, than it is to allow foolish notions like 'dont vote' to continue in our spaces. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago (11 children) Voting doesn't do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it's very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can't magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting. If you want to argue against that, then do so, don't badjacket. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (10 children) Im literally just telling folks to not engage in the same behavior that the fascists hope we engage in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (8 children) Fascists don't care if we vote, what they care about is if we organize. Now that the spoils of imperialism are drying up, fascism is rising, and the super-exploitation we inflict on the global south is turning more inward. What fascists are scared of is working class organizing and building actual power. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (5 children) Fascists spend hundreds of millions on each election cycle. Clearly they care permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago (4 children) Manufacturing consent every election cycle helps things go smoother. Voting is a pressure valve, not an actual way to enact systemic change in a system rigged by those it was set up to keep in power. The actual strength of the working class is in organizing, not in going along with a rigged system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (3 children) If you categorically discount the people in politics, our most visible rhetorical speakers, as being part of a consent manfactury, how do you suppose we will ever aquire the broad appeal necessary to build a large coalition of workers? Unions are not up to the task in 2025 (in part due to political decisions that have weakened them) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (2 children) People in politics are part of that, but within the two major parties we have no allies, even partial. I already answered the solution partially back here, but here it is again: Voting doesn’t do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it’s very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can’t magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting. We need to organize. Unions aren't up to the task, sure, but creating a working class party like what PSL is doing, building them up, and integrating within the working class is how you can leverage that to tilt the system and even overthrow it if conditions are right for that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Dippy@beehaw.org -6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child) Okay, I think we are going to continue to disagree. I understand that your position is to support thr PSL in leu of either the DNC and GOP. I dont expect you to engage further. My final pushback is that PSL does not hold seats or win elections to my knowledge, and if they aren't holding seats, they are not serving an electoral function for us. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 9 months ago PSL is growing as a party, organizes protests and other forms of activism, educates on theory and agitates via news programs. They have strong connections to other activist orgs like the ANSWER coalition. The fact that they do not hold seats or win elections does not mean they don't serve a function, they serve us far better than the DNC ever could despite being much smaller. They aren't a vanguard yet, but each year they grow and get closer to being one. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ebolapie@lemmy.world -5 points 9 months ago (1 child) If they don't care if we vote why are they trying to make it illegal? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago* Voting is a pressure valve, its utility is in letting off steam. If they can consistently fix it so that the results are predictable, then it provides the illusion that the system is democratic. permalink fedilink source parent [–] davel@lemmy.ml 8 points 9 months ago I don’t care what fascists hope. If fascists say the sky is blue, does that make it a “fascist talking point,” and therefore isn’t blue? That’s just not how it works. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dippy@beehaw.org -1 points 9 months ago (12 children) You're right, I dont know that they are a psyop. I do, however, know that the position of 'voting is not worthwhile if you are a leftist' that they are taking above is the same position that many psyops would like to have in the minds of leftists. Put more simply, what might they have said differently if they were a psyop? Nothing, I presume. It is better to root out psyop talking points that diminish our ability to form a collective voice, than it is to allow foolish notions like 'dont vote' to continue in our spaces. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago (11 children) Voting doesn't do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it's very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can't magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting. If you want to argue against that, then do so, don't badjacket. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (10 children) Im literally just telling folks to not engage in the same behavior that the fascists hope we engage in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (8 children) Fascists don't care if we vote, what they care about is if we organize. Now that the spoils of imperialism are drying up, fascism is rising, and the super-exploitation we inflict on the global south is turning more inward. What fascists are scared of is working class organizing and building actual power. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (5 children) Fascists spend hundreds of millions on each election cycle. Clearly they care permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago (4 children) Manufacturing consent every election cycle helps things go smoother. Voting is a pressure valve, not an actual way to enact systemic change in a system rigged by those it was set up to keep in power. The actual strength of the working class is in organizing, not in going along with a rigged system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (3 children) If you categorically discount the people in politics, our most visible rhetorical speakers, as being part of a consent manfactury, how do you suppose we will ever aquire the broad appeal necessary to build a large coalition of workers? Unions are not up to the task in 2025 (in part due to political decisions that have weakened them) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (2 children) People in politics are part of that, but within the two major parties we have no allies, even partial. I already answered the solution partially back here, but here it is again: Voting doesn’t do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it’s very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can’t magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting. We need to organize. Unions aren't up to the task, sure, but creating a working class party like what PSL is doing, building them up, and integrating within the working class is how you can leverage that to tilt the system and even overthrow it if conditions are right for that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Dippy@beehaw.org -6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child) Okay, I think we are going to continue to disagree. I understand that your position is to support thr PSL in leu of either the DNC and GOP. I dont expect you to engage further. My final pushback is that PSL does not hold seats or win elections to my knowledge, and if they aren't holding seats, they are not serving an electoral function for us. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 9 months ago PSL is growing as a party, organizes protests and other forms of activism, educates on theory and agitates via news programs. They have strong connections to other activist orgs like the ANSWER coalition. The fact that they do not hold seats or win elections does not mean they don't serve a function, they serve us far better than the DNC ever could despite being much smaller. They aren't a vanguard yet, but each year they grow and get closer to being one. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ebolapie@lemmy.world -5 points 9 months ago (1 child) If they don't care if we vote why are they trying to make it illegal? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago* Voting is a pressure valve, its utility is in letting off steam. If they can consistently fix it so that the results are predictable, then it provides the illusion that the system is democratic. permalink fedilink source parent [–] davel@lemmy.ml 8 points 9 months ago I don’t care what fascists hope. If fascists say the sky is blue, does that make it a “fascist talking point,” and therefore isn’t blue? That’s just not how it works. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago (11 children) Voting doesn't do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it's very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can't magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting. If you want to argue against that, then do so, don't badjacket. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (10 children) Im literally just telling folks to not engage in the same behavior that the fascists hope we engage in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (8 children) Fascists don't care if we vote, what they care about is if we organize. Now that the spoils of imperialism are drying up, fascism is rising, and the super-exploitation we inflict on the global south is turning more inward. What fascists are scared of is working class organizing and building actual power. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (5 children) Fascists spend hundreds of millions on each election cycle. Clearly they care permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago (4 children) Manufacturing consent every election cycle helps things go smoother. Voting is a pressure valve, not an actual way to enact systemic change in a system rigged by those it was set up to keep in power. The actual strength of the working class is in organizing, not in going along with a rigged system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (3 children) If you categorically discount the people in politics, our most visible rhetorical speakers, as being part of a consent manfactury, how do you suppose we will ever aquire the broad appeal necessary to build a large coalition of workers? Unions are not up to the task in 2025 (in part due to political decisions that have weakened them) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (2 children) People in politics are part of that, but within the two major parties we have no allies, even partial. I already answered the solution partially back here, but here it is again: Voting doesn’t do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it’s very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can’t magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting. We need to organize. Unions aren't up to the task, sure, but creating a working class party like what PSL is doing, building them up, and integrating within the working class is how you can leverage that to tilt the system and even overthrow it if conditions are right for that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Dippy@beehaw.org -6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child) Okay, I think we are going to continue to disagree. I understand that your position is to support thr PSL in leu of either the DNC and GOP. I dont expect you to engage further. My final pushback is that PSL does not hold seats or win elections to my knowledge, and if they aren't holding seats, they are not serving an electoral function for us. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 9 months ago PSL is growing as a party, organizes protests and other forms of activism, educates on theory and agitates via news programs. They have strong connections to other activist orgs like the ANSWER coalition. The fact that they do not hold seats or win elections does not mean they don't serve a function, they serve us far better than the DNC ever could despite being much smaller. They aren't a vanguard yet, but each year they grow and get closer to being one. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ebolapie@lemmy.world -5 points 9 months ago (1 child) If they don't care if we vote why are they trying to make it illegal? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago* Voting is a pressure valve, its utility is in letting off steam. If they can consistently fix it so that the results are predictable, then it provides the illusion that the system is democratic. permalink fedilink source parent [–] davel@lemmy.ml 8 points 9 months ago I don’t care what fascists hope. If fascists say the sky is blue, does that make it a “fascist talking point,” and therefore isn’t blue? That’s just not how it works. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (10 children) Im literally just telling folks to not engage in the same behavior that the fascists hope we engage in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (8 children) Fascists don't care if we vote, what they care about is if we organize. Now that the spoils of imperialism are drying up, fascism is rising, and the super-exploitation we inflict on the global south is turning more inward. What fascists are scared of is working class organizing and building actual power. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (5 children) Fascists spend hundreds of millions on each election cycle. Clearly they care permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago (4 children) Manufacturing consent every election cycle helps things go smoother. Voting is a pressure valve, not an actual way to enact systemic change in a system rigged by those it was set up to keep in power. The actual strength of the working class is in organizing, not in going along with a rigged system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (3 children) If you categorically discount the people in politics, our most visible rhetorical speakers, as being part of a consent manfactury, how do you suppose we will ever aquire the broad appeal necessary to build a large coalition of workers? Unions are not up to the task in 2025 (in part due to political decisions that have weakened them) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (2 children) People in politics are part of that, but within the two major parties we have no allies, even partial. I already answered the solution partially back here, but here it is again: Voting doesn’t do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it’s very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can’t magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting. We need to organize. Unions aren't up to the task, sure, but creating a working class party like what PSL is doing, building them up, and integrating within the working class is how you can leverage that to tilt the system and even overthrow it if conditions are right for that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Dippy@beehaw.org -6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child) Okay, I think we are going to continue to disagree. I understand that your position is to support thr PSL in leu of either the DNC and GOP. I dont expect you to engage further. My final pushback is that PSL does not hold seats or win elections to my knowledge, and if they aren't holding seats, they are not serving an electoral function for us. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 9 months ago PSL is growing as a party, organizes protests and other forms of activism, educates on theory and agitates via news programs. They have strong connections to other activist orgs like the ANSWER coalition. The fact that they do not hold seats or win elections does not mean they don't serve a function, they serve us far better than the DNC ever could despite being much smaller. They aren't a vanguard yet, but each year they grow and get closer to being one. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ebolapie@lemmy.world -5 points 9 months ago (1 child) If they don't care if we vote why are they trying to make it illegal? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago* Voting is a pressure valve, its utility is in letting off steam. If they can consistently fix it so that the results are predictable, then it provides the illusion that the system is democratic. permalink fedilink source parent [–] davel@lemmy.ml 8 points 9 months ago I don’t care what fascists hope. If fascists say the sky is blue, does that make it a “fascist talking point,” and therefore isn’t blue? That’s just not how it works. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (8 children) Fascists don't care if we vote, what they care about is if we organize. Now that the spoils of imperialism are drying up, fascism is rising, and the super-exploitation we inflict on the global south is turning more inward. What fascists are scared of is working class organizing and building actual power. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (5 children) Fascists spend hundreds of millions on each election cycle. Clearly they care permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago (4 children) Manufacturing consent every election cycle helps things go smoother. Voting is a pressure valve, not an actual way to enact systemic change in a system rigged by those it was set up to keep in power. The actual strength of the working class is in organizing, not in going along with a rigged system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (3 children) If you categorically discount the people in politics, our most visible rhetorical speakers, as being part of a consent manfactury, how do you suppose we will ever aquire the broad appeal necessary to build a large coalition of workers? Unions are not up to the task in 2025 (in part due to political decisions that have weakened them) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (2 children) People in politics are part of that, but within the two major parties we have no allies, even partial. I already answered the solution partially back here, but here it is again: Voting doesn’t do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it’s very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can’t magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting. We need to organize. Unions aren't up to the task, sure, but creating a working class party like what PSL is doing, building them up, and integrating within the working class is how you can leverage that to tilt the system and even overthrow it if conditions are right for that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Dippy@beehaw.org -6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child) Okay, I think we are going to continue to disagree. I understand that your position is to support thr PSL in leu of either the DNC and GOP. I dont expect you to engage further. My final pushback is that PSL does not hold seats or win elections to my knowledge, and if they aren't holding seats, they are not serving an electoral function for us. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 9 months ago PSL is growing as a party, organizes protests and other forms of activism, educates on theory and agitates via news programs. They have strong connections to other activist orgs like the ANSWER coalition. The fact that they do not hold seats or win elections does not mean they don't serve a function, they serve us far better than the DNC ever could despite being much smaller. They aren't a vanguard yet, but each year they grow and get closer to being one. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ebolapie@lemmy.world -5 points 9 months ago (1 child) If they don't care if we vote why are they trying to make it illegal? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago* Voting is a pressure valve, its utility is in letting off steam. If they can consistently fix it so that the results are predictable, then it provides the illusion that the system is democratic. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (5 children) Fascists spend hundreds of millions on each election cycle. Clearly they care permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago (4 children) Manufacturing consent every election cycle helps things go smoother. Voting is a pressure valve, not an actual way to enact systemic change in a system rigged by those it was set up to keep in power. The actual strength of the working class is in organizing, not in going along with a rigged system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (3 children) If you categorically discount the people in politics, our most visible rhetorical speakers, as being part of a consent manfactury, how do you suppose we will ever aquire the broad appeal necessary to build a large coalition of workers? Unions are not up to the task in 2025 (in part due to political decisions that have weakened them) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (2 children) People in politics are part of that, but within the two major parties we have no allies, even partial. I already answered the solution partially back here, but here it is again: Voting doesn’t do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it’s very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can’t magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting. We need to organize. Unions aren't up to the task, sure, but creating a working class party like what PSL is doing, building them up, and integrating within the working class is how you can leverage that to tilt the system and even overthrow it if conditions are right for that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Dippy@beehaw.org -6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child) Okay, I think we are going to continue to disagree. I understand that your position is to support thr PSL in leu of either the DNC and GOP. I dont expect you to engage further. My final pushback is that PSL does not hold seats or win elections to my knowledge, and if they aren't holding seats, they are not serving an electoral function for us. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 9 months ago PSL is growing as a party, organizes protests and other forms of activism, educates on theory and agitates via news programs. They have strong connections to other activist orgs like the ANSWER coalition. The fact that they do not hold seats or win elections does not mean they don't serve a function, they serve us far better than the DNC ever could despite being much smaller. They aren't a vanguard yet, but each year they grow and get closer to being one. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago (4 children) Manufacturing consent every election cycle helps things go smoother. Voting is a pressure valve, not an actual way to enact systemic change in a system rigged by those it was set up to keep in power. The actual strength of the working class is in organizing, not in going along with a rigged system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (3 children) If you categorically discount the people in politics, our most visible rhetorical speakers, as being part of a consent manfactury, how do you suppose we will ever aquire the broad appeal necessary to build a large coalition of workers? Unions are not up to the task in 2025 (in part due to political decisions that have weakened them) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (2 children) People in politics are part of that, but within the two major parties we have no allies, even partial. I already answered the solution partially back here, but here it is again: Voting doesn’t do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it’s very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can’t magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting. We need to organize. Unions aren't up to the task, sure, but creating a working class party like what PSL is doing, building them up, and integrating within the working class is how you can leverage that to tilt the system and even overthrow it if conditions are right for that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Dippy@beehaw.org -6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child) Okay, I think we are going to continue to disagree. I understand that your position is to support thr PSL in leu of either the DNC and GOP. I dont expect you to engage further. My final pushback is that PSL does not hold seats or win elections to my knowledge, and if they aren't holding seats, they are not serving an electoral function for us. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 9 months ago PSL is growing as a party, organizes protests and other forms of activism, educates on theory and agitates via news programs. They have strong connections to other activist orgs like the ANSWER coalition. The fact that they do not hold seats or win elections does not mean they don't serve a function, they serve us far better than the DNC ever could despite being much smaller. They aren't a vanguard yet, but each year they grow and get closer to being one. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dippy@beehaw.org -4 points 9 months ago (3 children) If you categorically discount the people in politics, our most visible rhetorical speakers, as being part of a consent manfactury, how do you suppose we will ever aquire the broad appeal necessary to build a large coalition of workers? Unions are not up to the task in 2025 (in part due to political decisions that have weakened them) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (2 children) People in politics are part of that, but within the two major parties we have no allies, even partial. I already answered the solution partially back here, but here it is again: Voting doesn’t do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it’s very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can’t magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting. We need to organize. Unions aren't up to the task, sure, but creating a working class party like what PSL is doing, building them up, and integrating within the working class is how you can leverage that to tilt the system and even overthrow it if conditions are right for that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Dippy@beehaw.org -6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child) Okay, I think we are going to continue to disagree. I understand that your position is to support thr PSL in leu of either the DNC and GOP. I dont expect you to engage further. My final pushback is that PSL does not hold seats or win elections to my knowledge, and if they aren't holding seats, they are not serving an electoral function for us. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 9 months ago PSL is growing as a party, organizes protests and other forms of activism, educates on theory and agitates via news programs. They have strong connections to other activist orgs like the ANSWER coalition. The fact that they do not hold seats or win elections does not mean they don't serve a function, they serve us far better than the DNC ever could despite being much smaller. They aren't a vanguard yet, but each year they grow and get closer to being one. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (2 children) People in politics are part of that, but within the two major parties we have no allies, even partial. I already answered the solution partially back here, but here it is again: Voting doesn’t do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it’s very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can’t magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting. We need to organize. Unions aren't up to the task, sure, but creating a working class party like what PSL is doing, building them up, and integrating within the working class is how you can leverage that to tilt the system and even overthrow it if conditions are right for that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Dippy@beehaw.org -6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child) Okay, I think we are going to continue to disagree. I understand that your position is to support thr PSL in leu of either the DNC and GOP. I dont expect you to engage further. My final pushback is that PSL does not hold seats or win elections to my knowledge, and if they aren't holding seats, they are not serving an electoral function for us. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 9 months ago PSL is growing as a party, organizes protests and other forms of activism, educates on theory and agitates via news programs. They have strong connections to other activist orgs like the ANSWER coalition. The fact that they do not hold seats or win elections does not mean they don't serve a function, they serve us far better than the DNC ever could despite being much smaller. They aren't a vanguard yet, but each year they grow and get closer to being one. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Dippy@beehaw.org -6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child) Okay, I think we are going to continue to disagree. I understand that your position is to support thr PSL in leu of either the DNC and GOP. I dont expect you to engage further. My final pushback is that PSL does not hold seats or win elections to my knowledge, and if they aren't holding seats, they are not serving an electoral function for us. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 9 months ago PSL is growing as a party, organizes protests and other forms of activism, educates on theory and agitates via news programs. They have strong connections to other activist orgs like the ANSWER coalition. The fact that they do not hold seats or win elections does not mean they don't serve a function, they serve us far better than the DNC ever could despite being much smaller. They aren't a vanguard yet, but each year they grow and get closer to being one. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 9 months ago PSL is growing as a party, organizes protests and other forms of activism, educates on theory and agitates via news programs. They have strong connections to other activist orgs like the ANSWER coalition. The fact that they do not hold seats or win elections does not mean they don't serve a function, they serve us far better than the DNC ever could despite being much smaller. They aren't a vanguard yet, but each year they grow and get closer to being one. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ebolapie@lemmy.world -5 points 9 months ago (1 child) If they don't care if we vote why are they trying to make it illegal? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago* Voting is a pressure valve, its utility is in letting off steam. If they can consistently fix it so that the results are predictable, then it provides the illusion that the system is democratic. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 months ago* Voting is a pressure valve, its utility is in letting off steam. If they can consistently fix it so that the results are predictable, then it provides the illusion that the system is democratic. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] davel@lemmy.ml 8 points 9 months ago I don’t care what fascists hope. If fascists say the sky is blue, does that make it a “fascist talking point,” and therefore isn’t blue? That’s just not how it works. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 9 months ago (1 child) I don’t know why you think you own the place when this is their Lemmy instance, while you're a guest here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dippy@beehaw.org -2 points 9 months ago I dont own the place. But neither does anyone in this comment thread, no one here is a mod on memes.ml, not that I should be expto know who owns what on a public forum permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dippy@beehaw.org -2 points 9 months ago I dont own the place. But neither does anyone in this comment thread, no one here is a mod on memes.ml, not that I should be expto know who owns what on a public forum permalink fedilink source parent
