1305
Save icon (suppo.fi)
submitted 9 months ago by to c/funny@sh.itjust.works
278 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 17 points 9 months ago (1 child)

Onedrive has been known to just randomly break programs like razer synapse and plenty of other things, and also reinstalling itself for no reason. A friend had a game running at 20fps and it was a known issue that onedrive caused it. I would prefer to have things autosave without using something that is acting indistinguishable from a virus.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Onedrive has been known to just randomly break programs like razer synapse and plenty of other things

    Never heard of that. The only thing I can imagine that might happen here is Synapse dropping off its config files in Documents, the file getting kicked off to the cloud (after a device switch/OS reinstall, by the user or via space-saving logic due to long time of not being used), and then Synapse trying to interact with the placeholder file. Literally nothing else could affect it.

    Also, using any Razer software as an argument against other software is... brave.

    A friend had a game running at 20fps and it was a known issue that onedrive caused it

    Would love to read more about it because it sounds completely ridiculous. Unless the game constantly overwrites files in OneDrive sync'd folders, which would trigger a non-stop sync, I guess?

    I would prefer to have things autosave without using something that is acting indistinguishable from a virus.

    This sentence goes super hard if you have no clue what a virus is.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Also, using any Razer software as an argument against other software is... brave.

    My mistake ill go tell my friend he's just not allowed to use his mouse because a commentor on lemmy said it's not his computer so he can't run what he wants on it, especially not the OEM software that his mouse requires.

    Onedrive seems to sync documents by default, which means any games that write log files there will be constantly syncing any time they append a little to the end of the file.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Stadia/comments/m8luww/pause_one_drive_sync_while_you_play_it_completely/

    True sorry I meant malware, it tries to reinstall itself and tries to make uninstalling more difficult, while also being a massive cpu hog while the user is unaware (and hasn't opened it once).

    https://windowsreport.com/onedrive-high-cpu/

    Ah even better it breaks itself because of telemetry logs and then takes up massive amounts of cpu in order to do nothing because it's in a broken state. Search onedrive high cpu usage to see how common this is, happened to me too (never opened it one time). Great software that I have had to remove from 5 different people's computers because it was either in a broken state or they played a game that was massively slowed down by a program they had not installed, didn't even know was installed, and they had not opened or used ever. Lucky them they got to experience it twice after onedrive reinstalled itself after an update!

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    My mistake ill go tell my friend he’s just not allowed to use his mouse because a commentor on lemmy said it’s not his computer so he can’t run what he wants on it, especially not the OEM software that his mouse requires.

    My point is that Razer is famous for designing crap quality software. It's probably nothing related to OneDrive, just Synapse being Synapse.

    Onedrive seems to sync documents by default, which means any games that write log files there will be constantly syncing any time they append a little to the end of the file.

    Games shouldn't be writing constantly to Documents. That's what temp/cache is for.

    True sorry I meant malware, it tries to reinstall itself and tries to make uninstalling more difficult, while also being a massive cpu hog while the user is unaware (and hasn’t opened it once).

    I'd love to see some tests done on this. A lot of the people complaining about Windows issues are the same people who used various "debloaters", and these cause so many unintended issues.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Sure razer programs are super sketchy, but a convenience program I never installed should not touch ANYTHING unless I tell it to. The issue isn't "oh razer is bad so it was probably onedrive doing something correctly and then it broke" it's "why did I have to waste time figuring out some random program I never installed and don't want was causing this problem?"

    They are writing constantly to documents because it makes it obvious to the user where the logs are, why do you get to decide they don't get to write there? For example openmw a huge project puts logs there. Again it's the fact it's a program I never installed and don't want that I had to spend hours researching to maybe find out what was causing it.

    An example of it being really buggy to get rid of

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/3998214/one-drive-keeps-recreating-itself

    Reinstalling itself

    https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/brai09/onedrive_keeps_reinstalling_itself/

    About performance idk what to tell you this seems very common

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/5i46aj/onedrive_is_always_checking_for_changes_and/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/onedrive/comments/oiix8t/high_cpu_and_ram_without_syncing_file_what_happen/

    Tons of videos on YouTube about it too.

    I shouldn't have to say, for a software I never installed or wanted, "well okay I'm not allowed to append to logs to documents, or use documents for any game files that might change often, and if I'm unlucky to have onedrive be in a bugged state or they break it with an update then I will have 30% cpu usage forever unless I fix it. And also I will have to uninstall it every 6 months which might leave my file explorer in a broken state." If this happened with a software I WANTED and installed myself, I would still complain but probably say the convenience is worth it. But it is being forced on me and the literal only reason I know about it is from it giving me 50% cpu usage and other friends having similar problems, for something they don't want and never wanted.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Sure razer programs are super sketchy, but a convenience program I never installed should not touch ANYTHING unless I tell it to

    That's not the point I was making.

    It was: OneDrive, normally, doesn't cause any such issues. The fact that these issues exist with specifically Synapse is more probably due to Synapse being shite, than OneDrive doing anything.

    They are writing constantly to documents because it makes it obvious to the user where the logs are, why do you get to decide they don’t get to write there?

    Because Documents is the user's documents space. Temp files go in Temp, application data goes in AppData. It's a super simple system that worked on Windows for the past 20 years. Razer doing things wrong is a problem with Razer's products, not Microsoft's.

    For example openmw a huge project puts logs there

    Then the devs of openmw should be flogged too. Everybody should fuck off from the Documents folder, because it turns into another Temp/AppData with all the crap that I didn't put there. It's My Documents, not "trash bin for lazy devs".

    I won't argue against it reinstalling itself as I never had a problem with it just chugging along and giving me the 5GB of free backup space.

    I won't comment on the performance hits, because I never experienced those. I'm willing to bet the fault is on either the user or the software their using, though, because I haven't seen a performance hit on any of my 2000-3000 managed devices. Sure, OneDrive for Business uses SharePoint, but the app works in a similar way.

    I won't comment on your last paragraph too, because it just reiterates that you missed my initial point.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    My documents has been the standard location for game saves for probably 20 years. You can say it shouldn't be and you might even be right, but that's the reality and Microsoft KNOWS that's the reality. If appdata is really supposed to be for things like game logs, configuration and saves, can you explain to me why it's hidden by default? How is the average person supposed to copy saves? Back them up? Edit their configuration settings? This is exactly why my documents became the default.

    I personally have un-installed onedrive and had it break my file browser such that the onedrive button was still there and any time I accidentally clicked it the file browser froze. I don't think you can chalk up every instance of onedrive slowing down a pc to user error, maybe some other software doing something unexpected + some user error. But again, many people are having issues caused by a software they never wanted. I should be able to be the worst dev ever and do whatever "incorrect" things I want, regardless of what a software I never installed and can't get rid of thinks.

    It's also just unexpected behavior, you're telling me just writing to my documents will lag my pc? What if I'm transferring files to my documents while doing something else, now I get massive lag spikes for the crime of putting files somewhere on my computer...? And what if it's pictures I absolutely do not want on Microsoft servers, like medical photos? Am I just required to know Microsoft put software that uploads it without me ever consenting?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    My documents has been the standard location for game saves for probably 20 years

    1. It shouldn't be, especially since "My Saves" exists (or existed).
    2. We're not talking about saves.

    but that’s the reality and Microsoft KNOWS that’s the reality

    Microsoft has NOTHING to do with where a developer decides his application will shit its data.

    If appdata is really supposed to be for things like game logs, configuration and saves, can you explain to me why it’s hidden by default?

    Because none of that is important for the user, unless they're troubleshooting. And if they're troubleshooting, they either know where to look already, or they're googling to find out anyway.

    How is the average person supposed to copy saves? Back them up? Edit their configuration settings? This is exactly why my documents became the default.

    Again, "My Saves", and we're not talking about saves.

    personally have un-installed onedrive and had it break my file browser such that the onedrive button was still there and any time I accidentally clicked it the file browser froze

    Don't know when you did that, but there was a time where OneDrive was "hard-coded" into Windows installations and brute-force killing it could break things. Which is why you didn't remove it fully, you just disabled it back then (log out, exit app, check if it's removed from Startup Applications, job done).

    Nowadays you can uninstall it easily.

    I don’t think you can chalk up every instance of onedrive slowing down a pc to user error, maybe some other software doing something unexpected + some user error.

    Do you remember some 1-2 years ago when "debloating" was super popular? Like, every thread on r/Windows about new installations would have people shouting about the need to "debloat" by the use of some script from the Internet?

    Do you also remember how that community didn't have a week without a couple "Windows Search is broken!!!!11" threads? You ever notice how the fad for "debloating" died down, these threads also disappeared?

    So, yeah, I can absolutely attribute a bunch of obscure issues that were never acknowledged by MS to user error or "malicious" software.

    I should be able to be the worst dev ever and do whatever “incorrect” things I want, regardless of what a software I never installed and can’t get rid of thinks.

    Yeah, that's not how computers work.

    It’s also just unexpected behavior, you’re telling me just writing to my documents will lag my pc?

    No.

    Or rather: "no, it's not supposed to".

    I don't know what logs does Synapse, or whatever similar app, drop in the Documents folder. If it's thousands of operations per minute, there's possibly a chance that OneDrive would trip over and die over this. But having thousands of operations per minute saved in logs, in Documents, is just retarded design in the first place.

    Let me put it this way: I develop relatively large scripts for work. I have them all in my OneDrive folder. I will also often unzip software packages into a OneDrive-synced folder. Thousands of files getting dropped out of an archive. I have never had any PC performance issues caused by OneDrive during that time.

    And what if it’s pictures I absolutely do not want on Microsoft servers

    Don't put them in a synced folder...?

    Am I just required to know Microsoft put software that uploads it

    Yes, you should know what you're doing on your computer. When you first open it, OneDrive tells you what the Status icons mean, so you should understand which folder is synced and which isn't.

    without me ever consenting?

    You logging in to OneDrive gave it consent to do the things it's designed to do. If you're fresh-installing Windows and use an MS account, you either get information about OneDrive during OOBE, or you get pop-ups about OneDrive after the installation is completed. Unless you just blindly close anything that isn't your Desktop, you are fully informed to the capabilities of your PC in terms of what OneDrive does and where it does it.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    I have never even heard of the my saves filder and can't find anything about it from searching, do you mean Documents/My Games? And yes we are not talking about saves, we're also talking about config files and potential mods and potential screenshots. Some devs also put logs next to saves in case a game crashed or misbehaved, especially in the case of moddable games. Even non-technical people can read a log and see file not found. I did this when I was 7 years old and had no clue about hidden files or appdata or even how to GET to the C drive, because games just wrote to documents or I would never find anything.

    Microsoft has NOTHING to do with where a developer decides his application will shit its data.

    Yes and I also have nothing to do with someone turning their car into my lane, but I'm not going to smash into them and say well I was in the right. Microsoft may be fully justified in thinking nothing is in there besides documents that someone actually wants backed up, and they can be fully justified as every user has their games break. Do you know why people blame onedrive and not the game? Because they actually wanted the game.

    Because none of that is important for the user, unless they're troubleshooting. And if they're troubleshooting, they either know where to look already, or they're googling to find out anyway.

    Config files and mod files are unimportant to the user...? And again troubleshooting as a non-poweruser is still possible if the log says "file not found."

    Yes I disabled it when it was hard coded and I sure wish it was job done. It kept running the service even though I had disabled it and then on a later update fully re enabled itself, so my choices are be really confused and have games be broken until I figure out onedrive is back or fully delete it and have a broken file manager.

    Yeah, that's not how computers work. Really so if I go on my pc right now and type for i in 0..10000 sleep 1 echo test >> ~/Documents/terriblespot.txt will this cause massive lag spikes in games? What about if I write to /boot just for fun, surely it won't work just fine because it's my computer not Microsoft's.

    What you said about opening onedrive is just not accurate, when you first install windows you get a tiny pop-up that says something along the lines of "keep all your files synced in one place!" And I as well as most people click the x. So I was actually just supposed to know that meant "we are actually syncing your folders unless you specifically say not to."

    I'm sure onedrive is perfectly fine for work applications, but for anyone that plays any games ever I have told them always uninstall or disable onedrive ASAP. I had actually forgotten that it can lock your documents folder and break games (and I believe other programs too) https://www.reddit.com/r/Sims3/comments/y1mhf8/psa_if_you_arent_able_to_save_on_windows_11_22h2/

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    do you mean Documents/My Games

    There used to be a "Saved Games" (or some such, can't remember off the top of my head) folder in your user folder (e.g. C:\Users\starelfsc2\Saved Games). If it's no longer there, presumably, MS removed it since practically nobody ever used it. I think it came first with Vista.

    And yes we are not talking about saves, we’re also talking about config files

    That goes in %programdata%.

    potential mods

    Inside the game's installation folder.

    potential screenshots

    That's what the Pictures folder is for..

    Some devs also put logs next to saves in case a game crashed or misbehaved, especially in the case of moddable games

    I wouldn't mind these showing up in the My Games/Saved Games folder, honestly.

    Even non-technical people can read a log and see file not found

    Non-technical people who don't know how to find %programdata% won't know what to do with a .log file. They'd need to google that anyway, and in doing so, would learn about Program Data.

    Yes and I also have nothing to do with someone turning their car into my lane, but I’m not going to smash into them and say well I was in the right

    Of course. You should expect them to NOT drive in your lane.

    What you are suggesting instead is that the city council builds another lane just in case someone starts driving on the wrong side of the road.

    and they can be fully justified as every user has their games break. Do you know why people blame onedrive and not the game? Because they actually wanted the game.

    Mate, I don't know what to tell you. When I was still running Windows on my gaming PC, I had OneDrive enabled. My brother has OneDrive enabled. My wife has OneDrive enabled. Some 90% of my friends and acquaintances have OneDrive enabled. We game a lot, and I mean A LOT. I currently have just shy of 1TB of games installed.

    NEVER had I experienced ANY issues with ANY software, games or otherwise, that would be caused by OneDrive just doing its thing.

    So, considering this anecdotal evidence, and putting it against the "Reddit threads" of "OneDrive broke something", AND against those where "Search doesn't work!" after a dude broke his Windows with a script he found online - I'm leaning towards the opinion that if someone is having issues with OneDrive, they caused them themselves, somehow.

    Config files and mod files are unimportant to the user…?

    To the VAST majority of users? Yes, they are. I can't remember the last time I had to fiddle with a config file... 2008? Maybe 2010? As for mods - if you're modding a game, you can spend all of 30 seconds extra to learn where Program Data lives.

    And again troubleshooting as a non-poweruser is still possible if the log says “file not found.”

    See above.

    my choices are be really confused and have games be broken

    Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on this one. But I already explained that above.

    Really so if I go on my pc right now and type for i in 0…10000 sleep 1 echo test >> ~/Documents/terriblespot.txt will this cause massive lag spikes in games?

    That's what I'm trying to explain: it SHOULD NOT. If it DOES, then something is broken on your end - either with the software (OS/services/something) or the hardware.

    What about if I write to /boot just for fun

    Umm, /boot? What's that? That's not a Windows thing.

    surely it won’t work just fine because it’s my computer not Microsoft’s.

    What are you trying to argue here now? "Microsoft bad" or something more specific?

    And I as well as most people click the x

    And that's, somehow, Microsoft's fault.........?

    So I was actually just supposed to know that meant “we are actually syncing your folders unless you specifically say not to.”

    No, you doughnut, you were supposed to click the notification and learn about OneDrive!

    I’m sure onedrive is perfectly fine for work applications, but for anyone that plays any games ever I have told them always uninstall or disable onedrive ASAP

    Skill issue.

    I had actually forgotten that it can lock your documents folder and break games (and I believe other programs too)

    That's because it can't, unless you break something.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Sims3/comments/y1mhf8/psa_if_you_arent_able_to_save_on_windows_11_22h2/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Sims3/comments/y1mhf8/comment/ism2uwm/

    Also: my wife was just recently playing Sims3 on Windows 11 and OneDrive on with zero issues.

    I mean... Dude, just try. Do a fresh install. Don't run any scripts, don't run any CCleaners or such, don't edit any registry settings, don't install any WinAeroTweaks or such. Just fresh install, log in to where you need to log in (including OneDrive, for the test), install some games and test it out. I guarantee that - barring hardware issues - you'll have a smooth ride.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    I wouldn't doubt vista had a saved games folder but Vista was a big outlier. File extensions are hidden by default on windows, so most people see logs as text files. It's easier to see "what's this random text file?" vs digging through your pc to try and find something you don't even know what you're looking for. Again programdata would be fine but it is extremely not obvious to the user because there is no hyperlink to it and it is HIDDEN by default. As a developer if I want the most incompetent users to still be able to find the game files, documents is the only place I have for that. A lot of people don't even know how to open the C drive.

    So first of all the notification for onedrive makes no indication it is backing up all your data, or that it's installed,, or that you should really really look at it. At least in windows 8/10, all it said was "all your files in one place!" And as windows has been known to advertise to the user, most people will think this is just an advertisement, not a warning.

    What you are suggesting instead is that the city council builds another lane just in case someone starts driving on the wrong side of the road.

    Well in this analogy it's more like the car has a built in thing that locks me into going straight so I nick the other car trying to turn out of the way, and the only indication I got of this feature from the manufacturer was "your driving can be made much easier!"

    To the VAST majority of users? Yes, they are. I can't remember the last time I had to fiddle with a config file... 2008? Maybe 2010? As for mods - if you're modding a game, you can spend all of 30 seconds extra to learn where Program Data lives.

    Sure it's pretty rare, but here are some examples I've done pretty recently.

    Editing starcraft 2 configs to get different shadow and lighting settings for better performance

    Editing openmw configs to change some settings that weren't in the launcher

    Changing some settings in sims 3 to prevent a crash

    Changing settings back in a game because the game wouldn't launch after I changed it in game

    What are you trying to argue here now? "Microsoft bad" or something more specific? My entire point is why is a program I never installed or wanted causing issues, which is MUCH worse than something I installed causing the problem. You don't know what you don't know, so how would I have any idea what's causing it's? Look through every single program I have installed? If I never opened it surely it's not doing something I never asked for. I don't care what the things I actually installed do, if I think it's stupid a game writes to documents, I can just not install that game. If I think it's stupid onedrive is breaking my games, first I even need to know it's installed and exists, then I need to know what it's doing, then I need to know that oh this might be causing the issue, then I need to know how to remove it.

    Even that comment you linked said removing onedrive reduced the issue heavily. As another example my friend just this week had a text file he was reading for a python script and onedrive put a random tag on it that made it break his script (which sounds strikingly similar to that sims 3 thread and similar issues I've heard and experienced over the years). It's fine you and people you know never had issues (though maybe you did and your hardware was just good enough to not notice), but just look up onedrive issues with games, it DOES mess with many users files. You can write 100% of these off to user error or a broken install if you want, but WHY do they have to care about this in the first place for a program they never installed or wanted??? Why is it touching their files at all??

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent