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Why Does Schumer Keep Trying to Cave? (prospect.org)
submitted 11 months ago by to c/usa@midwest.social
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How the Senate Democratic leader and his Gang of Eight keep trying to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

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[+] -8 points 11 months ago (25 children)

His proposal pushes the healthcare debate into the height of midterm season, all while demonstrating an eagerness to reopen the government. He's eliminating republican talking points regarding the shutdown while forcing the debate on the campaign trail. This is a smart move.

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  • [–] 34 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    All caving does is make Dems look weak against Trump. Again. No one gives a shit if it’s “good politics” or “strategy”.

    There’s no reason to cave. GOP controls the govt. Make them nuke the filibuster if they want the govt open.

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  • [–] 21 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    There will be no debate. It will be extended until after the election. Democrats will try to make it a campaign issue, but since there will be no shutdown forcing attention, Republicans will just ignore it. Like they did up until the shutdown happened. People may be vaguely worried, but it won't be a thing that's happening now so they'll just assume something will be done, and the extension now will condition them to believe that.

    If you think fighting about politics now is not important to the midterms, then demonstrating willingness to open the government and eliminating Republican taking points is also unimportant. However solidifying that Republicans are powerful and Democrats will always roll over is important. Not just for elections, but for standing up against fascism now.

    Chuck Schumer is not and has not ever been an electoral genius.

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  • [+] -6 points 11 months ago

    The point is that this is fighting now, and setting up for the midterms

    If the main issue with the shutdown are healthcare subsidies, this will end the shutdown and provide those subsidies for the next year. If midterms go well for the dems, it's a win for the long term. If the midterms don't go well for the dems, we're in the exact same position in one year as we are today, which sucks.

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah, worked out really well when he caved this spring so we could force the debate during the current elections so he can cave again to push it off to next year's elections.

    Totally not kicking the can down the road.

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    In fact, I'd argue that perpetually kicking a hugely popular Democratic issue to the next election cycle says he specifically doesn't want it solved, so that it can keep the same campaign literature.

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  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago (10 children)

    Not sure if optimism or naïveté.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    It's neither - I'm just pointing out how the game is played

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  • [+] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (7 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] -1 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    In what way am I entitled? In what way am I gloating?

    I understand the stakes, and I hate what the country has become. It is disgusting that republicans are using people who rely on SNAP and healthcare subsidies as pawns to advance this stupid agenda that's making life worse for the majority of the country.

    Instead of hurling insults at someone analyzing the situation, maybe you could educate yourself on political game theory. Perhaps then you'll understand where I'm coming from in referring to politics as a game.

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  • [+] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] -1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Did you miss the part where all of this was said before they caved, and the proposal was to extend healthcare subsidies for a year as a compromise to reopen the government? Which would give dems what they asked for while forcing the debate during midterms?

    Maybe this will help you understand

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  • [+] 1 point 11 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] -2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Sorry, did me pointing out how you're getting mad at someone on the same side as you for analyzing the situation upset you?

    Maybe take your own advice, twatwaffle

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  • [+] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] -2 points 11 months ago

    First and foremost, I'm very liberal. I've also pointed out in this thread and other other comments on this post that I am firmly against the pause on SNAP benefits, among other things.

    The original proposal was to extend healthcare subsidies for a year as a compromise to agree to the budget. I've pointed out, in this thread and others, why that's a good idea - it reopens the government, which means government employees will finally be paid, it gets SNAP funds moving again, and it extends the healthcare subsidies which can be a talking point to motivate voters in the next election (which would then hopefully mean laws would be passed to ensure affordable healthcare to everyone). Again, all of this was based on that proposal, and before dems caved to the budget as it stands.

    Think about this for a moment - by having the government shut down, and not compromising on anything, more people will go hungry and die and more people fall below the poverty line. That is what your position enables - the exact opposite of what you're saying you stand for.

    Would it be great if the republicans caved first? Absolutely, without a doubt. But, with the number of congresspeople under trumps thumb, and with the strategies being suggested (like ending the filibuster), that was unlikely.

    Instead of considering all of that, you've made all sorts of assumptions about me, and did your best to insult me.

    I'm sorry you're frustrated with the state of the world right now. I am too, along with millions of others. We might not agree on a path forward, but at least we can agree that none of what's happening is okay and that things need to change

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago* (3 children)

    No, it isn't. Republican talking points don't matter, they'll just come up with new talking points, because they're all bullshit anyway. They've brazenly violated the law and are rounding people up off the streets, now is the time to play hardball and refuse to cooperate. The republicans are currently fighting to avoid giving people SNAP benefits, let them, and let's see how that strategy plays out for them at the ballot box.

    In terms of optics, what's important is to demonstrate that what the Republicans are doing isn't normal and to make sure there's actual daylight between their positions and those of the Democrats. Caving to their demands will only normalize what they're doing and cause people to give up on going out to vote altogether.

    I swear, it doesn't seem to matter to centrists how many times their electoral strategies are proven wrong in practice, because this whole, "move to the right to attract swing voters" is just accepted dogmatically. If that nonsense worked, Trump would never have gotten elected either time.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I agree with everything you said, but disagree on the path forward.

    I love that communities are coming together to help people who rely on SNAP, but it's not sustainable. Nor is having government workers, furloughed or working, go unpaid. It is disgusting they, and others, are being used as pawns

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    Back in the day, when children were going hungry, the Black Panthers set up their free breakfast program to address the problem through direct action and to win support. Part of the reason the government set up a school meal program was to stop people from going to the Panthers. What the Republicans are doing when they gut these programs is they're forgetting themselves and overplaying their hands. They believe that they are invincible, and part of the reason they believe that is that their only opposition have been so spineless, so willing to bend over backwards to shield them from the consequences of their own actions.

    Of course, capitulation and appeasement don't work on fascists. If you're unwilling to accept the possibility of people going hungry (something that is entirely the Republicans' fault), then you can understand how unwilling Chamberlain was to accept the possibility of a second world war. But if you can understand that psychology, then you should understand that it's wrong.

    As Warren Buffet put it, "There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning." Nobody should be rolling over and surrendering just because the enemy is targeting innocent people we can't always protect, if anything, that's all the more reason to fight. They're already putting people in camps, what, are you waiting for them to start the furnaces? How is anyone supposed to take the Democrats seriously when they call Republicans fascists if they're constantly trying to capitulate and appease them?

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    They punted Trumps prosecutions for the same reason. It's a stupid plan.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    The plan doesn't work all the time - there's always risk

    That being said, punting on the prosecutions is the most disappointing and disgusting thing that led trump to power. They relied on the idea that voters wouldn't elect him simply based on j6 and the indictments, but underestimated the stupidity of voters and the way trump manipulates his base. Having bootlickers in places of power to slow it all down certainly did not help.

    Regardless, a bunch of dems caved to the budget without the extension of subsidies, so none of it matters anyway

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