THE POLICE PROBLEM

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[–] CubitOom@infosec.pub [S] 14 points 10 months ago*

Signal is a good start.

I recommend simplex chat

It is a tiny bit more complicated to set up and it's not syched on a centralized server or use any personally tracable identifier.

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[+] MourningDove@lemmy.zip 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

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[–] survirtual@lemmy.world 1 point 10 months ago

It could be a technical reason relating to Signal.

I wish I had a better answer than Signal for messaging, but it is the best we have right now. Most people who are security or tech familiar are very disconnected from what ordinary people can use or are willing to learn to use.

We need tech that has sensible defaults, low user complexity, and minimal new user friction. Right now, that's Signal.

Most tech I make these days doesn't even require an email. I generate keypairs behind the scenes instead and use QR codes to manage identity. After accessing the service, I then can escalate with unobtrusive notices (Provide your email to recover your account, etc). This auto-account pattern eliminates entry friction.

Of course, you need bot mitigation so a privilege escalation can be used as a user progressively explores more capabilities. The technical of this is a bit involved but the end-user experience is very low friction.

This gets a user invested (they can see content and actually interact with it), which then gives them a reason to progressively use more features.

Just theoretical right now but we'll see if it works for layman users. If someday people use it over Signal, then I'll know.

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[–] lena@gregtech.eu 5 points 10 months ago (1 child)

I prefer Matrix, harder to shut down and decentralized.

Though signal is still great!

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[–] survirtual@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Matrix has optional encryption and is difficult for non-tech savvy users to setup.

That puts them at the mercy of tech users, and without mandatory encryption it makes people much more vulnerable.

That said, I use Matrix myself, mainly to use WhatsApp without using WhatsApp. I also built a translation plugin to use an LLM for translating to any language in a natural tone, with audio voice transcriptions and auto-translations of my voice messages to the target language.

So I like Matrix but still would recommend Signal.

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[–] lena@gregtech.eu 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

Encryption is enabled by default in most sane clients for DMs. Groups are not by default because encryption in huge groups is slow.

And if you use a public server it's not that hard to set up.

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[–] survirtual@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

It is for people outside of tech circles. Just having to locate an instance is a massive amount of friction. But you need to locate an instance and a client, and there are a lot of configurable options and things that can go wrong.

Signal is turn-key, easier than Whatsapp friction wise, encryption by default, open source, non-profit, and secure. I don't like that their messaging platform isn't more open and that they don't have mitigation against, say, AWS going offline, but at the moment, they are the only app I have successfully migrated "normal" people to.

I think in the future, fediverse-esque tech will reduce their friction. Instead of managing instances, data is user-sovereign, instances never see non-encrypted user data, users automatically move between them, you don't sign up you have generated signing keys that are opaque to users unless they want to see them (tech people), etc. Fediverse can actually be LESS friction than current social media people use, but that hasn't been implemented yet.

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[–] lena@gregtech.eu 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

That's fair.

For communications with my friends and family I set Matrix (with element) up for them and it works perfectly, though I can see why using signal is simpler.

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[–] survirtual@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Your method is good, but it also makes them dependent on you for messaging.

What happens if something happens to you? What if you get bored? What if you don't have time to maintain it?

It is actually a big responsibility, and most people aren't lucky enough to have someone like you in their lives.

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[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 10 months ago

I tried to pitch Matrix as a Slack alternative for my makerspace. We setup a trial server and ran into various technical issues. As you say, non-tech savvy users were going to have a hard time. It was enough that people didn't want to make the switch.

My hope is that it gets better, and when Slack eventually stabs us in the back (which of course they will), Matrix will be sitting there in a better position.