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But according to the libs round here, ChInA BaDDDDddd (lemmy.ml)
submitted 11 months ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[–] 30 points 11 months ago (43 children)

Kinda? What do you think socialism looks like, if not the PRC? What about the PRC makes it not "genuine worker control," or more broadly, Marxism-Leninism not "genuine worker control?"

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  • [+] -6 points 11 months ago (42 children)

    It's mostly to do with how the workers aren't in control of anything

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  • [–] 27 points 11 months ago (35 children)

    They are, though. China is a democratic country, and public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy. Polling shows genuine democracy:

    What would worker control have to look like for you to accept it?

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  • [+] -12 points 11 months ago (34 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 29 points 11 months ago (17 children)

    Compared to the robust system of democracy in the US where corporations buy elections and the average person never gets to see a single policy enacted that benefits them? Is that what you're comparing China to?

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  • [+] -32 points 11 months ago (15 children)

    No lol. I mean, inarguably the us is more free by and large than china (usually, I'm talking normal timeline USA) but neither is a democracy.

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  • [–] 30 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    You're just talking out your ass here lmao. This is objectively not true.

    China has better infrastructure. Better education. Better affordable healthcare (and they are rapidly about to eclipse the US in our capabilities). 90+% of Chinese people own their own homes. China is one of the safest countries in the world.

    What freedom are you talking about? The freedom to die on the streets from preventable illness? The freedom to work 40+hrs a week and live out of your car because you are priced out of housing? The freedom to get shot at the grocery store because someone with a gun is having a mental episode? The freedom to get brutalized by an unaccountable police force?

    What freedoms are you talking about?

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  • [+] -23 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Oh yes, the 40 hour work week, what a nightmare, china has it much better.

    No brutal police either that's for sure, I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH YOU COMRADE, BECAUSE TO DO OTHERWISE WOULD BE UNPATRIOTIC.

    I guess at this point I need to just conclude you're a tankie or a bot and stop wasting my time

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  • [–] 21 points 11 months ago

    Hey this is nothing. Like, what are you talking about? Why can’t you give a coherent answer.

    CHINA BAD is not an answer. It’s okay if you don’t know something but stop screaming nonsense.

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  • [–] 18 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    usually, I’m talking normal timeline USA

    Ah yes just ignore the blatant counterexample.

    There's no other timeline genius, this is what the US system had been building up to for decades. This is the intended result, not an accident.

    You know, Sparta was the actually most peaceful city in Ancient Greece (usually, I'm talking when they're not at war).

    Edit: Also, there definitely is an algorithm that can determine if any other algorithm will halt or not (usually, I'm talking when you're not feeding its own source code back into itself).

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Delusional

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  • [+] -14 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    What was the date of the tianamen square massacre?

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  • [–] 17 points 11 months ago

    It was 4. June 1989 when cia agents hijacked a peaceful protest in china and massacred civilians.

    Why bring this up? You were doing the massacre, its your fault, it makes you look even more evil.

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  • [–] 25 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (14 children)

    The PRC isn't a western liberal faux-democracy, no, but it is a comprehensive unitary socialist democracy. Policy is usually pushed from the bottom-up, and there are comprehensive levels of provincial, regional, and national democracy. They abolished term limits for the presidential position, but that doesn't mean "president for life," Xi can be taken down democratically. It's unlikely, though, considering he enjoys over 90% support.

    As for being "authoritarian," all states are. The difference with China is that the working class is in control of the state, rather than the capitalist class like in western countries.

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  • [+] -20 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I can't tell if you honestly believe the Chinese working class are in control of china. If so, bravo I guess. No point discussing much else

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  • [–] 21 points 11 months ago

    I do, because it's true, but I don't see why that means there isn't a point in discussing. Public ownership is the principle aspect of society, and capitalists are regularly punished for stepping out of line, while the working class has comprehensive democratic structures in place to pass the policies they want.

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  • [+] -21 points 11 months ago (11 children)

    That's hilarious

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  • [–] 22 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    I don't see what you mean.

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  • [+] -17 points 11 months ago (8 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 22 points 11 months ago* (3 children)

    If you have something to say, then I invite you to, otherwise it seems more like you don't and can't, and instead resort to insult to cover for that. It's just standard ad hominem.

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  • [+] -16 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    If we want to be formal about it, you've just asserted a bunch of no sense claims without evidence. Go ahead and show us concretely the control the Chinese working class have over their political system.

    And maybe not with polls that include people under 24/7 surveillance by the party.

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  • [–] 21 points 11 months ago

    For the PRC, public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, and governs the large firms and key industries.

    China's state-run industry

    The working class is steadily advancing in material conditions, and as production develops it is increasingly planned. A bourgeois state would not allow capital to be so constrained and boxed in, and at the same time a state cannot be anything other than an extension of the ruling class. In China, this class has been the working class since the revolution, and it is backed up by the fact that the CPC is supported by over 90% of the population. This support is consistent even when western orgs gather the polling.

    Perceptions of democracy index

    The PRC certainly isn't much farther than the primary stage of socialism, as they call it, but already aspects of the intermediate stage are appearing. Reality more closely aligns with the CPC's stated goals and strategies than it does their critics, which is why most ML orgs back China and consider it socialist right now.

    Cheng Enfu's stages of socialism diagram

    People in China are under a similar level of surveilance as western countries, though unlike western countries this is mostly used against capitalists, so they cannot undermine the system.

    None of my claims have been nonsense, the reverse is true.

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  • [–] 19 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Why do you liberal trolls just vague-post when you don't know what you're talking about?

    You're not impressing anyone, and you would do better to actually read.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    the users of .world passed around curated lists of "tankie trolls" to newbies so that they can be blocked before ever interacting with them; how about doing something like this for lib trolls?

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  • [–] 20 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Nah, let the stormfront / kiwifarms people distribute lists of targets / witches they feel need burning.

    That's not our role as communists. In the words of Omar Mukhtar - "They are not our teachers"

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    Respectfully, lessons come in many guides, they just don't teach what they think they teach. That is, we've seen many iterations of lessons of what doesn't work for the people, unless it's new ways of oppression, suppression, a learned ignorance that can convince us we're smart.

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  • [–] 21 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    The workers are absolutely in control. If you don't know what worker's congresses are, then you should do more studying, and less talking.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Trying to learn more here but the link seems broken :(

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