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But I don't like the burning! (piefed.cdn.blahaj.zone)
submitted 11 months ago by to c/casualuk@feddit.uk
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[–] 4 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Why wouldn't it be? Darker skinned people have a hard time with northern winters due to the lack of sunlight. Read an article when I lived in Chicago about how many black women were diagnosed and lacking vitamin D.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    According to a dermatologist pricing in the Caribbean, most of the people living there have Vitamin D deficiency as well.

    When it's hot and sunny all year round most people just avoid the sun all the time.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    In Australia they stopped publically funding vitamin D blood testing because it just KEPT returning deficient. Basically everyone here needs to supplement Vit D. Well applied sunscreen blocks vitamin D absorption by like, 95%.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Because race isn't genetic and isn't scientific. It should competely be removed from the sciences entirely.

    Twins with same dad and mom can be different races.

    People who have no relation can have the same skin tone and can be labeled as the same race by someone looking at them.

    If there are specific genes or biochemicals causing different vitamin status in people, that is not racial, that is genetic and environmental. They need to cite those specific genes or biochemicals to actually conduct proper science. If the mechanism is melanin, then that needs to be properly described as melanin and not race- there are people who racially are black with no melanin - albinism.

    Everyone living at the poles has lowered vitamin d status and elevated vitamin A status, that's why you can't eat livers of polar animals or you'll die like those explorers who ate husky liver.

    Vitamin D daily amount is super super easy to get, something like 5-15minutes standing outside is all you need. People do more than that when they walk to their car. The reason their vitamin D is low is often due to needing other vitamins and nutrients that work with it. Vitamin D status is closely related to other fat soluble vitamin status (vitamin k, e) and B vitamins and many other things, not just accessibility to sunlight or dairy or melanin content of the skin.

    Additionally melanin content of the skin can change a little over time, including with most metal supplementations like copper, iron, and zinc - that's why zinc and copper deficiencies are associated with vitiligo and why giving vitiligo patients zinc can help treat the condition. It's also why skin bleaching works biochemically. It's why you can tan.

    What you eat and do affects your melanin content, but it certainly would not change someone's race, because race is an arbitrary grouping of features that includes skin color from various genetic and biological causes, meant to enforce roles and class onto people.

    So no, it isn't racial, it is related to vitamin D status.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Vitamin D daily amount is super super easy to get, something like 5-15minutes standing outside is all you need.

    True it's like 80% of daily vitamin D intake in 15 minutes even when you're only showing like 20% skin.

    But sometimes that be harder than you'd think. There's no direct sunlight to my apartment, at any point of the year. Despite these apartment complexes being called "Sun Valley" lol. I supplement vitamin D in the winters though. Have to. I'm not always awake during the few hours the sun is up and even when it is often there's heavy cloud coverage.

    If you do supplement vitamin D though, remember to do it in the morning rather than evening, as it's basically an antidote to melatonin, so to avoid fucking up circadian rhythm (or to create a new one) melatonin at night and vitamin d in the morning.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah again if you aren't absorbing adequate vitamin D from being outside, it is probably more related to other vitamin deficiencies, often vitamins k and e. That's why for years there were no known health benefits of supplementing vitamin d, until it got paired with vitamin k - your vitamin d supplements you take literally have vitamin k in them for this reason.

    It is actually a better idea to take it midday or later in the day, but paired with other fat soluble vitamins and calcium, and this is intuitive that your max vitamin D status naturally would be at the end of the day once you've eaten and been in the sun all day.

    You would never wake up full of vitamin D, the premise doesn't make sense.

    Melatonin and vitamin D have a complex relationship with calcium and serotonin and other biological pathways. I wouldn't call one an "antidote" to the other because they are synergistic.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    It's not just because they're synergistic.

    I say "morning" but 11-14 is basically my morning and I'm in Northern Europe. But yeah, probably best to take it dawn than dusk. And research seems to agree.

    During natural day–night rhythms, serum vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) increases rapidly as a result of UVB exposure [32], which occurs mostly between 11:00 and 15:00 h at higher latitudes (Europe, USA) since UVB is largely absent before and after these times due to the large solar zenith angle [9]. Also after supplement intake, serum cholecalciferol starts rising in a similar (rapid) fashion as after UVB exposure [32]. It is not unlikely that increases in cholecalciferol levels during the time window in which UVB exposure naturally occurs is most optimal for subsequent processing of vitamin D metabolites in the liver and kidneys. Especially because organ metabolism (i.e., nutrient uptake and processing in the liver and kidneys) is also regulated by circadian clocks.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1087079220301222

    But yeah "antidote" is hyperbole, my bad. "Further study is needed."

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    That isn't dawn. No one should take vitamin D at dawn or when they first wake up. They should take it later in the day. Not at dusk either.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    "Closer to dawn than dusk" doesn't mean "at dawn", more like "before midday".

    And yes, it is literally dawn in Finland during winter months, if we're gonna be pedantic about this. And you don't even need to go to into the polar circle. About halfway to 2/3rds up Finland would be enough for dawn to be around 11.30 during winter.

    I would wager that for a lot people on Lemmy, 15.00 is closer to their wakeup time than bedtime.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    Well, direct the pedantry to yourself because you're the one using 'dawn' that way, I just used your own term back to you quoting your words used:

    I say “morning” but 11-14 is basically my morning and I’m in Northern Europe. But yeah, probably best to take it dawn than dusk.

    You did not say CLOSER to dawn. You said take it at dawn than dusk.

    There's other reasons I think this, having to do with calcium, osteocalcin, movement, and vitamin k/food.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Morning is different from dawn.

    Dawn is when the sun rises. Morning is when you rise.

    Oh we were having some sort or a pedant-off contest here, I didn't actually say "AT dawn". I meant to write "closer to" in there as well, but either I fucked it up with typing on mobile or I'm just so high my brain skipped a few words. Both have been known to happen on Saturday evenings.

    Oh yeah there's a hundred other things there as well, but *studies SEEM to indicate that you shouldn't take vitamin d at night / in the evening / close to your bedtime. And since our organs also have circadian rhythms or function on oir circadian rhythm and it takes a while to ingest all of the supplement, perhaps a bit before a bit before your bedtime? Perhaps like, make it a routine to do it nearer the beginning of the day than the end of the day.

    Science seems to agree.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    You have to use the actual words you mean, I can't hallucinate your real meaning from thin air. People make typos, you made one, whatever. Just admit it was a mistake and move on instead of blaming ME lol, it's so... lol.

    Lol that is not what morning means. Morning is early morning to noon. You wouldn't wake up at 2pm and insist the time of day is morning, even if you can say it's YOUR morning and I understand that you mean you just woke up because it's a common joke about late sleepers saying "morning" when it's later.

    I said to take vitamin D at midday. Never did I say to take it at night. You brought up taking a dose at night (probably to educate readers) when no one else has been saying to do so, certainly not me. The argument therefore isn't: take before bed or take right when you wake up, the argument is: take midday or take right when you wake up.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (1 child)

    You also can't arbitrarily claim I've said something I've not said.

    I'm a human, as you probably guess, and thus, fallible. I did admit to having made a mistake. The mistake was either in my fingers or my brain, but yeah, I definitely admitted to it being "my bad". Maybe you skipped words when reading said comment, because you too, are human, and thus, fallible?

    Oh we're arguing the prescriptive meaning of "morning"? Cool. To me. Because It allows me to pedantically correct you, which you hate, because you're just being a lil' contrarian.

    All academic research in linguistics is descriptive; like all other scientific disciplines, it aims to describe reality, without the bias of preconceived ideas about how it ought to be.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_description

    Morning is used to indicate "hello people, I've recently woken up", even when it's not actually morning. Like if someone wakes up, even it's during the evening, but in an inappropriate place (ie someone dosed off somewhere), their friend make say "good morning, sleepyhead" when they wake up. Why's that, then? You just strictly defined what morning means, so it can't be used in other contexts. Oh wait, right, that's only if you're linguistically prescriptive. Which no academic linguists are, because that's not how language gets used in the real world.

    Where we are.

    Ever worked a shift job? In those too, you'd find people talking about "in the morning" as the time of day they woke up, even when theyre working a night shift. But also, they might at the same time say "when I got home in the morning", because that's equally valid language usage. Because language is not prescriptive.

    I said to take vitamin D at midday.

    No, you're now rounding up to midday, so you don't have to argue the science over that anymore. You said "midday or later in the day".

    No, not "later in the day" exactly for the reasons mentioned. Despite never actually saying you have to take it the moment you wake up.

    I can share my anecdotal experience though, which is that if you have to wake up 4 hours before dawn actually comes to go to work to drive people to buses and trains and then kids to school, I very much feel that vitamin D does perk me up in the morning. But with how large placebo is and how hard it is to quantify fatigue in general, that is purely anecdotal, not claiming it as any sort of evidence. But seems to help to wake up in a different way than caffeine, which basically just increases heartrate. (And no, that isn't all it does, I'm exaggerating. That's why I put down "basically", because I don't mean the sentence following it literally.)

    And no, I didn't proofread this and am sure there are more mistakes in it as well. Typos mostly I think but I'm not above skipping a word on accident. Ambien is a helluva drug. Although I'm not yet on today. Or am I and just forgot I took some? Might be. I've noticed it's not terribly good for my memory.

    Edit yeah in my first comment I did advice that if one supplements vitamin D, one shouldn't probably do it in the evening. Then I exaggerated with comparing it to an antidote to melatonin to simplify the reason.

    And lo behold, here we are a half a dozen essays later talking about it so I could've prolly saved time by actually detailing the first answer, but I wasn't assuming such prescription

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    Jesus, I can tell by the length of this post it is a narcissistic reaction to shame of being corrected/wrong. Pathetic.

    You also can’t arbitrarily claim I’ve said something I’ve not said.

    You literally said it. I quoted it. It wasn't arbitrary. Pathetic lol

    I didn't skip any words, you did. When you wrote it. It's been quoted.

    Look up denotative meaning. The denotative meaning and general meaning of morning is as previously described. I already explained it is a JOKE to say "Good morning" in the afternoon when someone wakes up, it is IRONY. It ONLY WORKS as a joke and irony BECAUSE it isn't ACTUALLY morning.

    They don't say THE morning, they say MY morning, as in, relative to them. Again, going off the ironic usage of this phrase. Further, we were NEVER talking about shift work.

    You started this off being randomly contrarian so you're projecting there.

    If I call you stupid, or if I call you NOT stupid - that one little word makes a big difference, right? It's like, words matter, I can't just hallucinate what you mean. You have to say it, this is obvious and pathetic you are bellyaching about it.

    Again, no one said to give it in the evening.

    Gonna also tell you that Ambien causes dementia. If you are genuinely feeling confused, you may want to go to the doctor, not being a dick about it.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    You literally said it. I quoted it. It wasn't arbitrary. Pathetic lol

    Your brain read it as "at dawn" but there was never an "at" there. My brain just jumped over a few words. Just like you can find in most my comments from the past few hours most likely.

    There still isn't an "at" before the "dawn" in either the comment I made nor in the quote where you quoted it.

    Read. It. Again.

    "best to take it dawn" because there never was an intention to put "at" there, you just assumed so, because it makes the most sense in that sentence, which lack the words "closer to". Which I thought I put in there. Like I said several times.

    But yeah, about this pedanticism and being pissed off by being proved so utterly seriously wrong when you thought you were being smart? And repeatedly? Yeah. Not a good look on you. Ever heard of psychological projection?

    "Look up.."

    See, unconsciously projecting again. This is telling me you actually did need to Google th3 concepts I talked about. Why would I need to look up the word? The word in itself expresses what it means and the context you use it specifies it.

    It ONLY WORKS as a joke and irony BECAUSE it isn't ACTUALLY morning.

    Oh no. It also works as a joke. I put that in there to clear it up for you. Clearly you've never worked a shift-job in your life. People occasionally, but most definitely use "morning" to refer to the point of the day when they woke up, even when it's not even remotely close to dawn. And I'd like to see you try to prove my lived experience of using language in that way with other people as... not having happened? Saying it's not how we used language? Or.. trying to tell me I'm not allowed to use language like that?

    And yes, it's "the morning". As in "shit I almost couldn't get up in the morning" not "shit I almost couldn't get up in MY morning". Lol.

    Sounds awfully like prescriptive linguistics. Something that doesn't belong in the 21st century.

    Sooorry. ;>

    What specifically do you think I was being against in my first comment in this thread? Are we sure we're not just using buzzwords we just learned, hmm..?

    Gonna also tell you that Ambien causes dementia. If you are genuinely feeling confused, you may want to go to the doctor, not being a dick about it.

    It's a very well known fact. Late night hosts have been using it as a joke for like 30 years. Quite precisely actually. Came out in -92 and took a while before the celebs started having problems with them. Edit, well the acute memory loss part as a joke, that is. the actually causing dementia long term is fresher research

    Skipping a word or two when I write a Saturday might comment on a mobile while on the shitter is hardly a sign of anything to remotely worried for. Lol.

    I literally specifically agree with you in my first comment then add the info that if someone takes vitamin D, it probably shouldn't be at night according to current, non-definitive, research. I begin the comment by saying "true", lol.

    Perhaps check the definition of "contrarian* again, huh?

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (30 children)

    Lol!!!! Please know I am not angry, I am laughing at you.

    Everything you said here was some cope, I think your ego and narcissism isn't worth my time, the strawman arguments in there certainly aren't.

    https://www.albert.io/blog/connotation-vs-denotation-understanding-word-choice/

    You were giving a denotative definition of morning originally, not a connotative one. This has nothing to do with prescribing language, but describing it. The ways we describe words can be connotative or denotative.

    Dawn is when the sun rises. Morning is when you rise.

    This isn't true though, morning is more than that (and most peoplewould not give this definition for morning at all). If I say "tomorrow early morning," or "at 5 in the morning" a night shift worker knows the time of day I am referencing. Further, night shift workers weren't being discussed.

    You are absolutely projecting the contrarian thing.

    Btw the existence of the "at" does not change the meaning from "best take it dawn than dusk." It means the same thing without the article.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Are you telling me people with dark skin have equivalent vitamin D production, given the same sun exposure, as people with white skin?!

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    *cant eat livers of polar predators, not animals. It's generally ok to eat lovers of animals like caribou

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    ok to eat lovers of animals like caribou

    Dude. It is most certainly not okay to eat people who love caribou.

    But yeah you're right. But also up North where the polar bears live vitamin toxicity might not be your only issue. Protein poisoning could be an issue, if you didn't have access to any carbs or fat (caribou, or reindeer as we like to call them, are suuuuper lean usually).

    Also known as "rabbit starvation."

    Rabbit starvation, also known as protein poisoning, mal de caribou, and rabbit malaise, is a form of malnutrition that arises when someone eats protein with too little energy from carbs or fat for too long.

    https://optimisingnutrition.com/rabbit-starvation/

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