Full thread (archived): https://archive.ph/TA3k4

ROFL this thread is hillarious. OP sure picked the wrong instance to ask their question.

(For fuck sakes: Please do not ask questions (expecially questions that may involve politics) in TankieLiteEdition.ml, aka: lemmy.ml)

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[–] 3 points 1 year ago* (39 children)

I mean on the second paragraph, they're not entirely wrong. Chinese citizens do generally seem satisfied with the country and the quality of life there could be far worse. China isn't democratic on a national level, it does have local elections with approved candidates.

It just depends how much you care about your freedom of speech, which is a common western value.

Personally, I think the status quo on China isn't too bad.

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Its much harder to find income in China, which is why my parents decide to immigrate to the US. (And before anyone says "socialized healthcare" nope, AFIAK, you don't get free healthcare, at least not when my parents and I left)

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  • [+] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)
  • [–] [S] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    TCM

    Oddly enough, 凉茶 sort of works?

    Maybe a placebo idk 🤷‍♂️

    But yea my grandmother want to boil some weird herbs/animal organ... like... no thanks.

    I have no idea if those stuff they sell at the TCM shops with those weird herbs actually do anything, but it taste bad and I have yet to hear from scientists talking about it, so nah, its just very bitter (or otherwise weird tasting) "soup" for unknown effects.

    (I say "herb" but actually I have no idea what those plants things are, just search "traditional chinese medicine shop" and you'll see what I mean. There are like tons of those in New York City lol.)

    These TCM stuff is kinda fucking with my depression, because my parents are very skeptical of "western" medicine, especially antidepressants which affects the brain, so they do not want me to take medication for depression. And I'm still a dependent on their insurance, and I have to rely on them to pay for medical bills. They think its some evil spirit or something... 🤦‍♂️

    So yea idk what to do, depression sucks, especially with the ongoing US wave of xenophobic policies by the current administration.

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  • I have some very serious health considerations. These require multiple specialists be seen on the regular, and lots of expensive imaging, tests, corrective measures, therapy, etc. When I was on medicaid it was a better experience than when I had a "cadillac" coverage plan, when I worked a pretty well paid job with government.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    They still don't have free healthcare. Although from what I hear, it's substantially better. Someone I know spent a week in hospital in China, and was charged £500. Insurance paid for it all. Granted, they are paid less on average, but U.S. healthcare costs are ludicrous. I do believe China is struggling with an employment problem, though.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Is it also something like "you get free healthcare if you bribe the doctors?"

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Idk what exactly do you mean by "bribe the doctors".

    Everything is out of pocket, you have to pre-pay for everything.

    Its a common TV trope in Chinese drama shows that someone can't pay for for an expensive emergency procedure, and then they somehow find a long lost relative (or a friend or something like that) and ask them to pay for it. Like... lmao, its got the Squid Game feel to it

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Ah, okay, because that's what I hear happened in my country. Literally, you had to bribe your way in to expect decent health care conditions and fair treatment - either with money or with products that were hard to find on the market. Bribes continued after 1989 as well, but not so much, and the newer generations reject being bribed altogether.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Because if a Chinese citizen complains, they disappear.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Not necessarily. If you post about it online, you might get the post removed, banned, and at worst, a visit from the police. You can personally complain to officials though in private with no recourse. They just don't want you stirring up a protest

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (26 children)

    Personally, I think the status quo on China isn’t too bad.

    except for those under the threat of imperialism

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (25 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (24 children)

    Those victims of the Belt and Road Initiative, Mongolia, Tibet, Hong Kong, Uyghurs, and probably Taiwan later

    and that's just modern imperialism

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (23 children)

    Victims of the belt and road initiative? Mongolia also was granted independence ages ago.

    The other ones you listed are regions that are part of China.

    Suppression of some local cultures, sure, but that's not really "imperialism"

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (22 children)

    it's nice that you're so selective about the suppression of local culture and foreign governments.

    I assume that means you also don't think the US is imperialist?

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (21 children)

    US can be more imperialist than China as it has a lot of military bases across the world and actively tries to influence the culture of foreign nations. China is largely self interested.

    Although I don't know to what extent is imperialism bad. I would prefer full on European imperialism than half-hearted selfish imperialism. Like building infrastructure in and supporting your colonies that cannot support themselves.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    Is building infrastructure and supporting your colonies not imperialism?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    Yeah. I don't see much wrong with that aspect. Treating them cruelly is the issue.

    Imperialism isn't necessarily bad, it's just how you go about it.

    Some of the issues with the British empire is that they left some places too early.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    The Chinese treated Tibet, Mongolia and the Uyghurs cruelly, to name a few from modern history.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago* (15 children)

    I don't really know who to believe anymore, after the amount of western propoganda going around tbh.

    For example, I went to China. Specifically a state-run Church there. And it was normal. The media back here and people kept saying it was purely a propoganda front and "the real believers are underground".

    Some said I'd be arrested immediately upon entering (???). I was greeted quite warmly and friendily by all of the officials. Police were lovely, as well as soldiers

    My guess is the stuff we read about are isolated incidents. Some are apparently later dealt with. But by the time said isolated incidents make it to western media, the narrative makes it seem like it's a nationwide policy.

    The chinese banknotes even have Uyghur and Tibetan languages on it. I also met a Uyghur Muslim who was studying in the UK, so she was clearly allowed to leave the country. They can't hate them that much. Although China does become really paranoid with stuff as well. So I'm not too sure what to believe. Not like I can change anything anyway.

    P.S. I also found out a bunch of media I was previously consuming about China was all linked to Li Hongzi, who is an absolute nutcase.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The halved birthrates for the Uyghurs in the last couple of years is a clear sign, they can't suppress that.

    Sounds to me like you got the North Korean Tourist treatment.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Everyone's birth rates are rapidly declining.

    I don't think I got a north korean tourist treatment. The water went off several times in one day. The Chinese family I stayed with also got the same treatment.

    That being said, I'm not making any claims. I just don't trust everything the media says about China anymore.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (12 children)

    You visited as a tourist, not as an advocate; of course, you're going to see what you want to see. Next time, you should ask about Tiananmen Square or question police powers, and see what happens

    The chinese banknotes even have Uyghur and Tibetan languages on it. I also met a Uyghur Muslim who was studying in the UK, so she was clearly allowed to leave the country. They can’t hate them that much. Although China does become really paranoid with stuff as well. So I’m not too sure what to believe. Not like I can change anything anyway.

    And Australia has Aboriginals on their notes too. What an asinine point.

    This sounds exactly like someone defending Israel. Oh, I visited Israel, and there are arabs and Palestinians, and everyone is very happy and friendly. They even have Arabic on their banknotes!

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Why should I ask? It's not really any of my business. I don't think you'll have a good time anywhere if you question police powers.

    And Australia has Aboriginals on their notes too. What an asinine point.

    And Australia celebrates it's aboriginals?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Because you're acting like an authority, saying you've been to China and didn't see any of this.

    And yes, Australia celebrates its Aboriginals now, but that isn't my point. My point is that it doesn't magically remove the imperialism that minorities face.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    I'm not an authority. I'm just giving my own personal experience. I don't think the idea people get from the media is accurate. Every country has it's pros and it's cons. China is no different. It's not North Korea.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    long as you admit china is imperialist with human rights abuses we coo

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (7 children)

    So is the USA, so is the UK, so is Israel, so is Russia, so is Hamas (well not really imperialist).....

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    pretty much. i think you can argue every country on earth has had human rights abuses at some point in its history.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    I am not gonna be like "China is ultimate utopia", but I don't see it as a lesser country to the USA or the UK

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    To the US I can understand, but why the UK? Surely free healthcare more rights makes the UK overall better?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Infrastructure there is better in some aspects and development is faster. I don't really want to leave the UK though anyway. Like the UK has problems and I don't see them going away anytime soon. While China appears to actually try and aim to fix problems with infrastructure, etc. Some people I knew went to China 10+ years ago, and they had issues with the likes of smog, people's manners and public toilets which were not the case by the time I went. (Except the public toilets there are still not very nice)

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If PRC was given a military as powerful as the US, they'd be doing the same thing. Its not "X country is evil", its ANY country being given that power WILL become evil.

    The only way to avoid it is to NOT have ANY county becoming superpowers.

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