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submitted 2 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

In light of the recent capitulation by Z on the phrase “globalize the intifada” I wrote a comment on another post that I want to discuss with others

“The Democratic Party must be destroyed root and stem. I will bang this drum for the rest of my fucking life.

We have to recognize that the call is coming from inside the house. They could have throttled the RNC into submission after bush 2. The Republicans weren’t that much less radical then! They deliberately chose not to because they would rather be the lesser evil than do any good with the privileged position they occupy. At a certain point negligence becomes indistinguishable from culpability, especially when your whole thing is you are the only game in town.

I don’t think Zohran really made any major tactical mistakes up to this point. It remains to be seen what the fallout from this will be. The reality is that in NYC you can’t even get close to any position of power without being a Democrat. There are aberrations to this but the historically privileged position of the Democrats in NY specifically makes participation in the party pretty unavoidable in that region. They were and are a necessary vehicle for him in this mayoral race.

But with all that said: does anyone see this shit happening with a party that actually has his back? A party that actually operates like a disciplined party with political goals and values? Not just a coterie of consultants and opportunist, like the Democrats. The way the Dems have handled arguably the greatest political talent to join their ranks in over a decade should tell you everything you need to know. The average Democratic politician would rather see him dead than actually have any meaningful effect on the status quo.

I truly believe he needs to take whatever political capital and good will he has and invest it into another party ASAP. Whether it’s something new or the PSL or whatever, anything less will be a slow and suffocating death filled with illusory near-victories and nothing ever truly happening.

I don’t think the backlash from the rest of the party could get any worse anyway. They already see him as disloyal and some kind of outside force trying to upset this revolting political consensus they have worked so hard to construct. He cannot afford to keep all his eggs in one basket.

I’m just some fucking random person on the Internet but I think a lot of us have staked an uncomfortable amount of hope on this guy. I’m just hoping and praying he doesn’t go down easy and he recognizes the totality of who his adversaries are before it’s too late. He cannot afford to give these people one inch and it looks like he’s starting too and that makes me very nervous. Hoping for the best but unfortunately expecting the worst.”

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[-] [email protected] 29 points 2 weeks ago

TLDR: 💯 💯 💯

This is exactly what has happened historically. Every single left of center Democrat that gets elected either capitulates or gets iced out to the point that they're completely useless and/or lose an election/primary. Bernie, AOC, Mike Gravel, Kucinich, Barbara Lee (only vote against AUMF after 9/11), etc, etc

I'm sure Zohran is trying to use the party to do something good, and he probably will to some degree (if he can win). But the truth is that even Zohran being successful will hurt the left in the long-term. He will simply be a sheepdog herding baby leftists into the Democratic party. Some will still radicalize, but they'll waste months/years hoping the Dems will change first. Others will remain complacent, but many will move to the right and conform to the status quo.

There is no path forward with the Democrats. Any local success will be shut down or at least slowed down by the party. Reforming the party is impossible without gaining control from the top down and even then it would be difficult to get past the bureaucracy. The whole system is built to do exactly what it's doing and has been doing for decades.

If he wins, it would be awesome for him to join PSL (or any existing revolutionary org) and take people with him. Then run for reelection under the new party. He won't do this, but it's probably the best possible outcome if we want socialism.

[-] [email protected] 22 points 2 weeks ago

The other way any kind of left intervention can harm the left is by not working. People get cynical and disillusioned. They had 30k volunteers doing canvassing, many of them formerly inactive. What if something happens to make those people feel double-crossed or manipulated or they are disciplined by capital like all being fired or beat up.

A whole new generation of "oh ya I was involved in a communist thing when I was a kid" and it got nothing or it got repression.

I'm not arguing against anything on these grounds. To win big you gotta play big.

Its possible to mitigate all of this of you have people inside doing correct inoculation. That needs to be really well planned.

[-] [email protected] 15 points 2 weeks ago

Absolutely. A vanguard party really does seem like the only way to accomplish socialism. Anything else gets crushed by capitalism before it can really accomplish much at all or is forced to be so secretive it can't really be successful

[-] [email protected] 13 points 2 weeks ago

What?! How dare you, AOC would NEVER capitulate

this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2025
52 points (96.4% liked)

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