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Vote blue no matter who! (lemmy.ml)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[–] 30 points 1 year ago* (23 children)

Better to jump into shark infested waters than to try and patch a sinking ship

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago*

    Better to organize and join revolutionary parties that stand a chance to actually not sink, when neither the Democrats nor Republicans can patch the hole (move beyond Capitalism and into Socialism, that is). The hole is Capitalism, it cannot be fixed by parties who are bought by Capitalists to serve their interests.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (20 children)

    Except the point of the cartoon is that they don't want to patch that sinking ship.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago* (19 children)

    Better in a slowly sinking ship than to be torn apart by sharks. Even if the people in the ship are ignoring it's sinking.

    And ironically depending on the boat's construction it may fill with water and still maintain some buoyancy. Or only half the boat will fill. The boat will be a lot worse, but still provide a barrier to the sharks

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (16 children)

    You're getting too lost in the metaphor, here. Capitalism itself is unsustainable, and neither the DNC nor GOP are willing to transition to Socialism, or even can. The only option is worker organization and overthrow of the system. There are no "sharks," there's no bouyancy in a dying Empire as Capitalism collapses, there's either Socialism or barbarism in our future.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago* (15 children)

    Fascist = sharks

    I'd say capitalism will be easier to defeat under a liberal democracy than and authoritarian fascist regime.

    It's better to stay separated from the sharks I'd say

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    You're somehow even more off-base. Fascism is a result of Capitalism needing to defend itself through its own self-induced crises via violent means. There isn't a "choice" to make between liberalism and fascism, they are the same ideology justifting the same underling Mode of Production, finding itself in different circumstances. In other words, if the US is in prosperity, its ideology is seen as "liberal," if the US is in decay and responds to unrest with crackdowns, it is seen as "fascist," despite the same motive factors applying in both situations.

    Capitalism isn't any easier or harder to defeat under the DNC or GOP, both are violent against worker organizing and have near-identical foreign policy (as is necessary to keep the Imperialist machine going). The DNC is not going to treat Socialists any nicer than the GOP, as the DNC and GOP are far closer together than the DNC is to Socialists.

    I highly recommend you read Blackshirts and Reds, at least the first chapter as it goes over fascism (though the whole book is great).

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Sorry I'm not going to buy your "both sides are the same" bullshit when one side is currently utilizing a foreign gulag.

    Neither is ideal, but it doesn't take a genuis to parse out which is worse for the worker.

    It's low key Nazi apology rhetoric

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    The concentration camps were open under the DNC and expanded. Both the DNC and GOP make open use of camps like Guantanamo Bay and brutalize immigrants and foreigners, liberal media outlets like CNN obfuscate them while the DNC is in office and highlight them when the GOP is. It's how consent is manufactured. It isn't "one side" that has these camps open, both the GOP and DNC utilize them to terrorize people the US gov considers its enemies. The camps don't close down for 4-8 years between parties, they stay running and often expand under both parties.

    Neither is acceptable for workers. The working class needs Socialism. Capitalism is crumbling, the US is de-industrialized because financial Imperialism was incredibly profitable, but as the US loses its influence it loses its super-profits from Imperialism. Neither bourgeois party can or will make the transition from an economy where private ownership is the principle aspect to one where public ownership is the principle aspect, so the working class must force that through organizing and overthrow.

    Finally, the bit on Nazi apologia is absurdly off-base, and insulting. You are minimizing the actual and real extent the DNC has expanded and utilized the very same camps you call "gulags" simply due to ignorance or partisan loyalty to the DNC. I'm apologizing for neither party, my point is that both are unacceptable, not that "the GOP isn't as bad" as you are painting my stance to be. You should absolutely read Blackshirts and Reds.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Let me talk about my personal life for a bit. Maybe you've never met a worker or maybe you're too concerned about your moral high ground to take a pause and think about everyday people's lives.

    My sister called me yesterday crying after Trump's "big beautiful bill" passed the house. She is deathly afraid of how she'll make ends meet without food stamps or the medicaid that pays for my niece to have Healthcare. So now she worries about being able to feed her daughter, a daughter she had no choice in whether or not to have thanks to state laws.

    The idea that there is no conceivable difference is bullshit. Should two full time workers struggle so much? Absolutely not. They should be able to afford to live, and food stamps is a band aid solution. But it keeps people fed. Neither party wants to fix the cause, but only one wants to cut food stamps. Only one wants to end school lunch programs, end abortion, disenfranchise women, and we both know I can keep going.

    Yes both are evil, and I'll concede Guantanamo Bay. It's sad that I was thinking about the new one in El Salvador and forgot that one. The crimes of this government is astounding.

    You're not even wrong about how the working class need socialism they do. Without a doubt. That's unfortunately not coming tomorrow, and we are stuck with a binary choice. Unless of course there's an armed revolution neither of us will be starting so maybe skip the rhetoric or feel free to prove me wrong. When presented with an unsatisfactory binary choice I'll vote for the one that is less likely to cause my family to go hungry.

    I agree the system is broken, and our options are limited. We can take up arms against the state, but that may not go so well. The only option that they won't execute us for is picking harm reduction at the ballot box. Not satisfactory but at least my niece gets to eat and my sister can sleep a bit easier. We can of course protest, but that has always seemed ineffective as well. I go, but especially in modern day it seems lack luster. If you have any suggestions feel free to give them. But I will always pick the choice that causes the least amount of harm while trying to figure out the path forward to something better.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Not that I particularly value your slander one way or the other, but opening your comment with the insinuation that I am not of the working class and am out of touch with it simply because I disagree with you is baseless character assassination. It brings nothing to the table but the temporary satisfaction of insult, it doesn't make your point any better aesthetically or logically. If your goal with this comment is to build a bridge, you don't start doing so by setting the wood on fire.

    Either way, I am certainly sorry to hear about your niece. However, any idea that the DNC somehow wouldn't be just as willing to gut safety nets is wrong. You're attributing the results of a system meant to represent the Capitalist class to the individual whims of party members, but that's not the material basis for the state. The State is run by Capitalists, the parties are their limbs and hands.

    The basis of the DNC and GOP is in corporate donors, and the revolving door with various industries tied to the US Government. Harris ran an even more right-wing campaign than Biden, why? Why did Trump win 2024? Why do elections go the way they go? Because as workers, the decision is not given to us, the system is pre-selected and gerrymandered precisely so that the will of Capital is always upheld.

    The path forward is and always has been revolution. The admission that you mostly just cast your vote and occasionally protest while conditions necessarily decline alongside Capitalism is just kicking the can down the road while the damage gets worse. I can recommend theory if you want, or recommend orgs to join like PSL, but if you stubbornly assert that your only genuine political action can be within the context of the electoral system and you insist on putting all of the blame on the GOP rather than the system at large, you're going to be watching as conditions get worse for you and your family no matter which party is in power.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    All my local PSL does is go to protests and post gofundmes.

    Seems a lot like the type of lackluster activism you accused me of

    Sure the parent organization has a better message, but they seem generally ineffective. But I guess that's what the system is designed to do. No real change can occur without revolt. And that will be suppressed with extreme violence.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    PSL does work behind the scenes with respect to labor organizing and whatnot, plus what they can actually do is impacted by how many members they have. If you feel they aren't doing much, you can ask them directly why that is or if there's more they are doing you don't know about.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Labor aristocrats will always side with the empire. Its in their class interest after all, to keep the empire running, to keep stealing from the rest of the world.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Very helpful I'll be sure to tell my sister that next time she calls me crying.

    I'm starting to think the worker is low on your priority list

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The western worker living off imperial superprofits is indeed low on my priority list

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Yes that's going to get the working class to unite. You've solved it.

    I'll let you in on a secret. The wealthy will continue to exploit the entire world regardless of how many workers in their country go hungry. You're advocating for the worker to suffer for the sake of suffering

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    You think the wealthy can survive without their workers? If no one worked for the USA MIC, you think those bombs they use to massacre the rest of the world build themselves? Capitalists can't do shit without workers. If you want to help the global working class, sabotage your empire, and destroy it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Ahhh cool dude. Better to slowly sink into the shark infested waters than to just crash the boat.

    Don't do anything to fix the hole or anything.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    A slowly sinking boat gives me more time to breathe and therefore more time to fix it.

    Being in shark infested waters gives me neither of those things.

    It's very basic self preservation.

    Also don't pretend the ship was crashed. It wasn't it was just straight into shark infested waters. If crash was an option I'd pick it.

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