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Eureka (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/science_memes@mander.xyz
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[–] 1 point 2 years ago (22 children)

He's definitely not the first historical example. Artemis and Narcissus were aroace

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    It's not the same though, those are fictional characters. I know a real person made them, but still, it's not the same

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  • [–] -5 points 2 years ago

    They're not fictional, they're mythical. Here's the difference between reality, fiction, and myth: Fiction is made out of the rearranged parts of reality. Myth is made out of fiction that people thought was important. And reality is made out of myth that people took too literally.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (18 children)

    Narcissus was not aroace, that's slapping modern ideals on what's literally an aesop about living up your own arse.

    Hestia and Athena, definitely though. And Tesla.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (17 children)

    The Greeks didn't understand asexuality and thought it was hubris, since the only examples of ace people they did accept were literal gods. Narcissus was 16 when he died. A 16 year old who constantly gets sexually harassed has the right to be a little rude in rejecting people. Ameinias, for example, asked for the 16 year old's hand in marriage multiple times. If you want to say hounding a mid-pubescent child for sex is acceptable in any cultural context, then I'm going to view you the same way I view the ancient Greeks: as a pedophile.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (16 children)

    Narcissus literally loved no one above himself. It wasn't asexuality it was hubris in the form of solipsism and narcissism - the reason why the condition is literally named after him.

    And the Greeks cerainly DID understand asexuality, go and read Hippolytus.

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  • [+] -2 points 2 years ago (15 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (12 children)

    Come back when you're capable of a coherent adult conversation

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago* (11 children)

    Another detail about the myth you have to understand, in addition to all the sexual harassment of a child, is that Narcissus is a rape baby. He was born because Cephissus raped Liriope. That's his background for understanding the world of love. He exists because of an act of cruelty, which he is not old enough to distinguish from the sexual harassment he constantly suffers as a child because he was born pretty. Of course someone from that background, who has no feelings of love of his own, would end up resenting the very concept. I believe Narcissus was justified in telling Ameinias to kill himself, Ameinias was a pedophile and he was sexually abusing Narcissus with his harassment.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (10 children)

    what on earth does that have to do with your belief he's aroace.

    Do you think aroace people are such due to trauma and abuse? You sound incredibly erasing.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    The thing it has to do with his asexuality is that he lacks the natural positive context for sex that comes with being allosexual. Most rape babies grow up, start having sexual thoughts, and are forced to come to an acceptance of sex. Narcissus has zero positive experience with sex. There's nothing to counter his association between sex and his mother's rape. That's explains why he's rude to people who sexually harass him. I thought that context might be helpful, since the other person in this thread is saying that he's evil for not loving anyone.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (8 children)

    You're still attributing sexuality to trauma. That is not how this works. Aromanticism and Asexuality are innate sexualities, what you are describing is literally a trauma response.

    This is the same sort of nonsense that had people believing lesbianism was due to a "bad man"

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago* (7 children)

    No I'm not, pay attention. I'm saying he was born asexual due to random chance. You're mixing up causes and effects.

    Asexuality plus trauma equals telling sexual abusers to kill themselves. That's what I'm saying. In this argument, sexuality is a cause, not an effect. You're saying I'm arguing his sexuality is an effect, but that's not true. I'm saying his sexuality is the cause of him telling Ameinias to kill himself. Pay attention.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (6 children)

    I’m saying his sexuality is the cause of him telling Ameinias to kill himself.

    That didn't happen but it's rather telling you think that aroaces run around telling people to kill themselves.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    Well we do. I'm ace and I've told a rapist to kill themself. It's the right thing to do with rapists. Anyway, you want sources?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ameinias_(mythology)

    Narcissus also spurned Ameinias and gave him a sword. The latter committed suicide at Narcissus's doorstep after being rejected by him.

    https://www.greeklegendsandmyths.com/ameinias.html

    Ameinias though, was persistent and time after time he was rejected by Narcissus. One final rejection though would occur, and Narcissus would present the spurned Ameinias with a sword. Ameinias would commit suicide, falling on the sword, on the very doorway of Narcissus’ home.

    Before he fell on the sword though, Ameinias prayed to the goddess Nemesis to avenge him. Nemesis heard the prayer, and cursed Narcissus so that Narcissus fell in love with own reflection in a pool of water.

    https://topostext.org/work/489

    The 24th; in Thespeia of Boeotia (a city not far from Helikon) a child was born, Narcissus, very handsome and dismissive of both Eros and lovers. While all the other lovers tried and gave up, Ameinias kept insisting and beseeching. Narcissus did not yield and sent him a sword instead. He did away with himself at Narcissus' doorway, after beseeching the god to avenge him.

    So far in this conversation you've said children owe other people sexual love, mistaken my account of Narcissus' asexuality, moved the goalposts when I pointed out your mistake, made apology for child sexual abuse, and been dead wrong about Narcissus telling Ameinias the sexual abuser to off himself. You suck. You don't know anything about Greek mythology, and you should have held your judgements until you understood the source material. You've just been lurching from lie to lie in this conversation trying to cover for your previous CSA apologism and ineptitude. Give it up. Let go of your massive ego and admit you were wrong.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    You right wing trolls always want to find some excuse to say us leftists are the real bigots. So on your way to erase asexuals, demand children get into sexual relationships, and make apology for sexual harassers, you have to include some quip about your made up 4D mental gymnastics that say us asexuals are evil for admitting that one of our own might tell a sexual abuser to go commit unalive.

    So although you won't admit it upsets you when I say this, I will still offend you with the statement "asexual people deserve to be allowed to live."

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    I do mean this very sincerely: Please seek help.

    I am not right wing. I am not erasing asexuals. I I'm literally a grey demi ace.

    The fact that you literally cannot conceive of someone interprting a literal thousand year old myth differently from you without not only demonising them, but creating an entire structure around it is severely worrying.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    The myths say Narcissus rejected Eros and all lovers. Ancient Greeks didn't have the word "asexual". Expecting them to describe things in modern language is a failure of your ability to interpret things from their point of view and understand cultural differences. You're holding ancient peoples to an impossible standard. The work of a historian or archaeologist is to understand ancient cultures well enough to interpret their words, and not to take everything literally.

    There is no evidence that Narcissus was allosexual. What you're doing is treating straight as the default, and demanding an unreasonable standard of proof to confirm that a character is queer. You've internalised queerphobia. And the reason I was aggressive with you, is because you began by attacking me and calling me queerphobic. You seem to have calmed down, so now let's talk facts. Narcissus displays zero evidence of any sexual or romantic desires in the text, except for when he's being cursed by a god who was told to make him love.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    No. We are not going to pretend this didn't happen.

    You have called me a pedophile, you have called me a bigot, a homophobe and a sexual abuse enabler. Your behaviour has been frankly disgusting and unwarranted and you are going to apologise for that before any discussion continues from this point.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    Oh, the reason I moved past that subject was because I assumed that when you stopped your aggressive behaviour, it was your way of apologising. A lot of people feel shame about the idea of saying sorry, so I thought you wanted to move past your mistakes and put them behind you. I was ready to forgive your behaviour. If you still want to talk about your aphobic actions, then I'll reiterate my earlier point that you're erasing queerness and that your entire argument serves to vilify a child for not having sex.

    I will also remind you that you accused a fellow asexual of aphobia based on completely misunderstanding what I said, and you also tried to ignore that without apologising. I've been very forgiving of your mistakes. While I would sincerely like to receive an apology, I also understand if it's too difficult for you, and am happy to live and let live.

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