venusaur comments on Does anybody else feel guilty being suspicious of anybody in a black hoodie with the hood up?

Does anybody else feel guilty being suspicious of anybody in a black hoodie with the hood up? (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by venusaur@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

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Specifically because I live in a hot climate, I'm always fighting the feeling of being suspicious of anybody I pass in the streets with a hoodie pulled up. I feel guilty because of racial profiling associated with hoodies, but gotta protect myself and my family, especially because in many cases the perpetrators of assault and murder seen in media are somebody with a hood and/or mask on.

[+] venusaur@lemmy.world [S] -7 points 2 years ago (12 children)

crime rates going down doesn't mean it's not still happening way more than it should. not sure where you live, but i'm in a big city and you definitely shouldn't walk around thinking everything is peachy all the time.

you can be vigilant with your own safety without being pro-police. the reality is that some criminals in the streets have a common uniform that non-criminals commonly wear.

if i'm walking behind a woman by herself on an empty street, i'm gonna cross the street because i understand that they're concerned for their safety, and i know women appreciate that.

since crime has dropped, should women not be concerned for their safety? are they being manipulated by sexist media and driven into a panic if they are?

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[–] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago (11 children)

Wow you really flipped that around, and even ended with a strawman. How are we talking about women and not hoodies?

You shouldn't feel bad for being suspicious of someone in a hoodie, but you should realize you are buying into pro-police, racist media manipulation exactly as the other person said.

When you can find statistics showing crimes by people in hoodies are as common a problem as rape and sexual assault against women, then we can talk.

the reality is that some criminals in the streets have a common uniform that non-criminals commonly wear.

Wait until you hear how many criminals wear jeans.

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[–] venusaur@lemmy.world [S] 0 points 2 years ago (10 children)

https://xtown.la/2019/07/30/suspect-wore-a-hoodie/

I’m equally suspicious about sunglasses and dark caps, but there’s no guilt there because we haven’t historically racially profiled people wearing that.

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[–] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

So I looked at your link.

The article seems to be about the fact that it's racially charged, and that people reporting it may be doing so out of racism

But in the year following Martin’s death, **the number of crimes reported with “Suspect wore hood/hoodie” skyrocketed. In 2013, there were 1,243 reports, a 92% increase from 2012. **

While this was the largest jump since 2010 (when the data became publicly available), the data show the number of suspects being labeled as wearing hoods or hoodies rising each year.

This year, in the first six months, there were 2,510 crimes with “Suspect wore hood/hoodie,” a 29.5% increase from the first six months of 2018, which had 1,938 reported crimes.

How do you read the first quoted bit, then uncritically present the rest of the numbers as being in support of your suspicion??

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[–] venusaur@lemmy.world [S] -1 points 2 years ago

You missed my point that despite caps/hats being the next largest attire being reported, I don’t feel guilty being suspicious of it. I feel guilty about being suspicious of hoodies because I’m aware of racism. I am not suspicious of hoodies because of racism.

You’re incorrectly assuming I’m only suspicious of people in hoodies.

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[–] lukecooperatus@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

Just pointing out how ironic it is that your response to someone informing you that you are being manipulated by police propaganda is to... go find stats sourced from the police to argue that you feel justified agreeing with the police propaganda.

🤔

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[–] venusaur@lemmy.world [S] 1 point 2 years ago

That’s actually not what happened. I brought up stats that showed that police also report suspects in caps/hats, but I don’t feel guilty about that.

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[–] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (5 children)

When you can find statistics showing crimes by people in hoodies are as common a problem as rape and sexual assault against women, then we can talk.

I don't think that pie chart shows that. Not percentages. Numbers of crimes.

Because if the stipulation is that it's just as reasonable for you to worry about hoodies as for a woman to worry about a strange man behind her (which is the only way the prior comment would have been relevant) I continue to hard disagree.

I’m equally suspicious about sunglasses and dark caps, but there’s no guilt there because we haven’t historically racially profiled people wearing that.

So then, you are already acknowledging that your reaction is from pro-police racist tropes. Where is the argument between you and I?

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[–] venusaur@lemmy.world [S] 0 points 2 years ago (4 children)

let's take it all the way back. you said i shouldn't be concerned because crime rates are down. i say that doesn't mean i shouldn't be concerned. it's all relative. i think it's still too high where i'm from and there are a number of "uniforms" that criminals wear, including hoodies. i am conflicted about being suspicious about hoodies because of racial profiling. i am not concerned about being suspicious of a person in a trench coat because there is no racist past.

we each have our own tolerance for risk regarding our safety, and not sure if you're a parent, but that tolerance for risk goes way down when you are protecting loved ones. you have a fair point about crime rates going down, but it's dangerous to lower your guard because rates have gone down a little.

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[–] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (3 children)

you said i shouldn’t be concerned because crime rates are down.

I don't think I said this.

Overall my point is just - we all have our biases. If you feel guilty about being suspicious about folks in a black hoodie, and if bias against hoodies is likely to be of racist origin, your guilt is some portion of you being aware of that. If you weren't, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It's OK to admit that, even if only to yourself. I don't think you should feel guilty about it. But I do think you should acknowledge what's contributing to that bias. We all have that in some way or another, and I don't think you can move past it while denying it's there.

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[–] venusaur@lemmy.world [S] 1 point 2 years ago* (2 children)

I get what you’re saying, but in this case it’s the opposite. I’ll lay it out again.

There are multiple articles of clothing that are suspicious to me regardless of who is wearing them and how police treat people wearing them.

Hoodies are included amongst them.

Due to racial profiling of POC’s wearing hoodies, I feel guilty being suspicious of people in hoodies.

I’m also suspicious of people in trench coats, but we don’t racially profile people in trench coats like we do with people in hoodies, so I don’t feel guilty about it.

It could be anybody in a dark hoodie with the hood up that makes me suspicious, but if they’re a POC, I feel guilty because of police racially profiling people wearing them.

Does that make sense?

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