▲ 380 ▼ GenAI tools ‘could not exist’ if firms are made to pay copyright (www.computerweekly.com) submitted 2 years ago by L4s@lemmy.world [M, B] to c/technology@lemmy.world 151 comments fedilink hide all child comments GenAI tools ‘could not exist’ if firms are made to pay copyright::undefined
[–] Even_Adder@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) You should check out this article by Kit Walsh, a senior staff attorney at the EFF, and this one by Katherine Klosek, the director of information policy and federal relations at the Association of Research Libraries. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nymwit@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) The LCA principles also make the careful and critical distinction between input to train an LLM, and output—which could potentially be infringing if it is substantially similar to an original expressive work. from your second link. I don't often see this brought up in discussions. The problem of models trained on copyrighted info is definitely different than what you do with that model/output from it. If you're making money from infringing, the fair use arguments are historically less successful. I have less of an issue with the general training of a model vs. commercial infringing use. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Even_Adder@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're responsible for infringing works, whether you used Photoshop, copy & paste, or a generative model. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nymwit@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) I don't disagree with that statement. I'm having trouble seeing how that fits with what I said, though. Can you elaborate? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Even_Adder@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) It doesn't really, I was just kind of restating what you quoted. Since no one factor of fair use is more important than the others, and it is possible to have a fair use defense even if you do not meet all the criteria of fair use, do you have data to back up your claims about moneymaking infringement? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nymwit@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago Cool. Thanks. I can see it now. No, not really, just the pieces over time I've read on what wins fair use protections when challenged often talk about the interpretations involved and that profit making was generally seen as detracting from gaining fair use protections when the extent of the transformative nature was in question. This mentions it, but of course it isn't data on what has been granted protections vs. denials of protection. Harvard counsel primer on copyright and fair use Noncommercial use is more likely to be deemed fair use than commercial use, and the statute expressly contrasts nonprofit educational purposes with commercial ones. However, uses made at or by a nonprofit educational institution may be deemed commercial if they are made in connection with content that is sold, ad-supported, or profit-making. When the use of a work is commercial, the user must show a greater degree of transformation (see below) in order to establish that it is fair. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nymwit@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) The LCA principles also make the careful and critical distinction between input to train an LLM, and output—which could potentially be infringing if it is substantially similar to an original expressive work. from your second link. I don't often see this brought up in discussions. The problem of models trained on copyrighted info is definitely different than what you do with that model/output from it. If you're making money from infringing, the fair use arguments are historically less successful. I have less of an issue with the general training of a model vs. commercial infringing use. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Even_Adder@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're responsible for infringing works, whether you used Photoshop, copy & paste, or a generative model. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nymwit@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) I don't disagree with that statement. I'm having trouble seeing how that fits with what I said, though. Can you elaborate? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Even_Adder@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) It doesn't really, I was just kind of restating what you quoted. Since no one factor of fair use is more important than the others, and it is possible to have a fair use defense even if you do not meet all the criteria of fair use, do you have data to back up your claims about moneymaking infringement? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nymwit@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago Cool. Thanks. I can see it now. No, not really, just the pieces over time I've read on what wins fair use protections when challenged often talk about the interpretations involved and that profit making was generally seen as detracting from gaining fair use protections when the extent of the transformative nature was in question. This mentions it, but of course it isn't data on what has been granted protections vs. denials of protection. Harvard counsel primer on copyright and fair use Noncommercial use is more likely to be deemed fair use than commercial use, and the statute expressly contrasts nonprofit educational purposes with commercial ones. However, uses made at or by a nonprofit educational institution may be deemed commercial if they are made in connection with content that is sold, ad-supported, or profit-making. When the use of a work is commercial, the user must show a greater degree of transformation (see below) in order to establish that it is fair. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Even_Adder@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're responsible for infringing works, whether you used Photoshop, copy & paste, or a generative model. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nymwit@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) I don't disagree with that statement. I'm having trouble seeing how that fits with what I said, though. Can you elaborate? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Even_Adder@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) It doesn't really, I was just kind of restating what you quoted. Since no one factor of fair use is more important than the others, and it is possible to have a fair use defense even if you do not meet all the criteria of fair use, do you have data to back up your claims about moneymaking infringement? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nymwit@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago Cool. Thanks. I can see it now. No, not really, just the pieces over time I've read on what wins fair use protections when challenged often talk about the interpretations involved and that profit making was generally seen as detracting from gaining fair use protections when the extent of the transformative nature was in question. This mentions it, but of course it isn't data on what has been granted protections vs. denials of protection. Harvard counsel primer on copyright and fair use Noncommercial use is more likely to be deemed fair use than commercial use, and the statute expressly contrasts nonprofit educational purposes with commercial ones. However, uses made at or by a nonprofit educational institution may be deemed commercial if they are made in connection with content that is sold, ad-supported, or profit-making. When the use of a work is commercial, the user must show a greater degree of transformation (see below) in order to establish that it is fair. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nymwit@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) I don't disagree with that statement. I'm having trouble seeing how that fits with what I said, though. Can you elaborate? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Even_Adder@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) It doesn't really, I was just kind of restating what you quoted. Since no one factor of fair use is more important than the others, and it is possible to have a fair use defense even if you do not meet all the criteria of fair use, do you have data to back up your claims about moneymaking infringement? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nymwit@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago Cool. Thanks. I can see it now. No, not really, just the pieces over time I've read on what wins fair use protections when challenged often talk about the interpretations involved and that profit making was generally seen as detracting from gaining fair use protections when the extent of the transformative nature was in question. This mentions it, but of course it isn't data on what has been granted protections vs. denials of protection. Harvard counsel primer on copyright and fair use Noncommercial use is more likely to be deemed fair use than commercial use, and the statute expressly contrasts nonprofit educational purposes with commercial ones. However, uses made at or by a nonprofit educational institution may be deemed commercial if they are made in connection with content that is sold, ad-supported, or profit-making. When the use of a work is commercial, the user must show a greater degree of transformation (see below) in order to establish that it is fair. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Even_Adder@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) It doesn't really, I was just kind of restating what you quoted. Since no one factor of fair use is more important than the others, and it is possible to have a fair use defense even if you do not meet all the criteria of fair use, do you have data to back up your claims about moneymaking infringement? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nymwit@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago Cool. Thanks. I can see it now. No, not really, just the pieces over time I've read on what wins fair use protections when challenged often talk about the interpretations involved and that profit making was generally seen as detracting from gaining fair use protections when the extent of the transformative nature was in question. This mentions it, but of course it isn't data on what has been granted protections vs. denials of protection. Harvard counsel primer on copyright and fair use Noncommercial use is more likely to be deemed fair use than commercial use, and the statute expressly contrasts nonprofit educational purposes with commercial ones. However, uses made at or by a nonprofit educational institution may be deemed commercial if they are made in connection with content that is sold, ad-supported, or profit-making. When the use of a work is commercial, the user must show a greater degree of transformation (see below) in order to establish that it is fair. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nymwit@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago Cool. Thanks. I can see it now. No, not really, just the pieces over time I've read on what wins fair use protections when challenged often talk about the interpretations involved and that profit making was generally seen as detracting from gaining fair use protections when the extent of the transformative nature was in question. This mentions it, but of course it isn't data on what has been granted protections vs. denials of protection. Harvard counsel primer on copyright and fair use Noncommercial use is more likely to be deemed fair use than commercial use, and the statute expressly contrasts nonprofit educational purposes with commercial ones. However, uses made at or by a nonprofit educational institution may be deemed commercial if they are made in connection with content that is sold, ad-supported, or profit-making. When the use of a work is commercial, the user must show a greater degree of transformation (see below) in order to establish that it is fair. permalink fedilink source parent