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NY bill would require a criminal history background check for the purchase of a 3D printer (www.nysenate.gov)
submitted 3 years ago by [M, B] to c/technology@lemmy.world
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NY bill would require a criminal history background check for the purchase of a 3D printer::Requires a criminal history background check for the purchase of a three-dimensional printer capable of creating firearms; prohibits sale to a person who would be disqualified on the basis of criminal history from being granted a license to possess a firearm.

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[–] 71 points 3 years ago (19 children)

I'd argue a cnc mill makes a hell of a better gun than a 3d printer

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  • [–] 9 points 3 years ago (9 children)

    It would, but it would also require more expense and skill and the "gun control is pointless because people will just make their own guns" lie works best when you can imply there is minimal cost, experience, effort and risk.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago (8 children)

    since a cnc is computer controlled it should be about as hard to learn to use a 3d printer

    making the model and instructions for the cnc may be more complicated, but you can share those

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  • [–] -1 points 3 years ago (7 children)

    Your gut feelings are not facts. CNC machining -- especially of hard metals and complex shapes -- is significantly more complicated and expensive than desktop 3D printers.

    You can't just buy a $200 CNC frame, stick a palm router in it and come back an hour later to an AR-15.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 years ago

    Not that you're saying otherwise, but it's not anywhere that simple to make a gun on a 3d printer either. It's at least not considerably easier than making one clandestinely using any of the myriad options that have existed without 3d printing.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (5 children)

    There are companies that sell small CNC machines marketed for the purpose of producing firearms. At that point all you need is the gcode and the stock.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 years ago (4 children)

    Sounds like you shouldn't have any problem answering these questions then:

    1. What does the machine itself cost?
    2. What grades of metal is the spindle able to cut and what is suitable for a safe and reliable firearm?
    3. What tool heads are needed to manufacture each part of a gun?
    4. For each of those tools, cutting that material, what is a good RPM and feed rate?
    5. Do any parts require precise realignment as part of a tool change or when changing the orientation of a part?
    6. How much stock is required for a semi-automatic rifle and what does it cost?
    7. What have you personally manufactured and on what machines? Regular old mills and lathes are fine.

    Alternatively, you could go on record saying that absolutely none of those things matter for gun manufacturing.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    All of the answers to these questions are easy, and they all begin with a G.

    G-code answers most of your technical concerns.

    Google could have helped you find your other answers.

    And the Ghost Gunner is what I found:

    https://ghostgunner.net/product/ghost-gunner-3-deposit/

    Why so incredulous about something that is obviously possible?

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  • [–] -1 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    What grade and type of metal is required for a gun? GCode.

    Best of luck with your gun.

    I'm aware it's possible to CNC gun parts and have never claimed otherwise. But isn't it just fascinating how all the people insisting its how easy and cheap it is have never actually machined anything?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    It’s entirely possible the linked product comes with instructions on what material to put in the machine. It’s entirely possible they might even sell the required material.

    Based on the reviews and videos of the product your skepticism is unwarranted. You’re just being a dick.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 years ago

    This isn't skepticism, this is actual experience machining parts.

    At no point have I suggested that CNC machining gun parts is impossible nor that no desktop printers are capable of it.

    I have very specifically challenged people who appear to have no experience machining parts but nevertheless insist it's no more difficult than printing your homework.

    It's a lie that's used to undermine gun control and you're repeating it verbatim.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago (7 children)

    So the big thing people, including lawmakers, whiff on this is you dont actually 3d print guns. You can 3d print superficial parts like the grip and whatnot, but the actual firing part of the gun is largely not 3d printable.

    You can print it, and people have tried, but it usually only lasts 1-2 rounds before it breaks.

    However, what you can print that is a huge deal, is the very precise jigs necessary to very easily manufacture the firing mechanisms of the gun, to quite a degree of precision. Then you use a drill or whatever to actually make those metal parts.

    Basically, you can easily 3d print a gun maker, and then 3d print all the "extra" parts like grip and whatnot that attach to what you have created, in order to improve it.

    Thats the actually serious part, because normally these sorts of jigs need to be extremely precise and are quite difficult to get ahold of. You need a fairly high end CNC machine to make one, or you have to buy it.

    But 3d printers, even fairly affordable ones, when fine tuned by hand, do have the necessary precision to print such jigs, which makes them much more accessible for quite cheap... And once you print the jig, it becomes pretty easy to mass produce DIY guns.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    People have been making paper templates for a long time, I can't see how plastic would have any real advantage. A plastic guide isn't going to constrain a metal cutting tool, at best it just shows you where you need to drill the same as a paper template. If you wander outside the lines you'll just mess up both the part and the jig.

    If I were to set up a clandestine gun manufacurer I would try and design a product that could be made using mostly aluminum extrutions and paper jigs. That way it's easy to compartmentalize each step, harder for one guy to flip on you, and fast/cheap. Plus if you get raided you don't have a bunch of incriminating files cached on your CNC machine from previous runs.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago

    A plastic guide isn’t going to constrain a metal cutting tool,

    It's a lot more complicated than that. We are talking a lot more than just "guides" when it comes to these types of jigs. Adapters and entire jigs that require a bunch of common parts you can by at the hardware store + the plastic parts to assemble.

    Think more like creating bespoke fairly precise CNC stuff to adapt a drill or router. It's a lot more advanced than just paper guides, because 3d printers are for all intents and purposes CNC machines themselves.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    This doesn't track. You can do way better with a manual mill and, as the other poster mentioned, a 2d paper template with some spray glue will do fine in a pinch. Drilling steel will heat the bit up enough to melt plastic anyway. You could set drill bushings but they won't be perfect and will drift a bit once they heat up.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

    The jigs in question are a lot more complicated than I think what you are imagining. If you look up on the topic (and possibly get added to a watchlist), it's fairly sophisticated equipment being created to handle a lot more of the finesse work required to produce a ghost gun that can actually reliably hit targets its aimed at.

    Thats what separates this sort of work out from your run of the mill DIY handcrafted stuff, the guns in question actually have a lot of accuracy as 3d printed rigs can have very high precision once they have been fine tuned, and unlike stuff like paper they can be produced in 3 dimensions, which means you're working with a lot more than just following lines.

    Think more like extremely augmented drill presses and routers and shit that can produce a lot of the parts you normally cant make yourself and have to buy.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    And once you print the jig, it becomes pretty easy to mass produce DIY guns.

    Sure, but you still need to buy the actual firing mechanism parts of real guns in order to manufacture "3d printed guns".

    And you can also make those same jigs and fixtures out of wood or any other raw material.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago

    but you still need to buy the actual firing mechanism parts of real guns in order to manufacture

    Nah thats the parts the jigs make, as well as a couple other key pieces that require higher than usual precision. At least, if you want to actually make a gun that can reasonably hit a target.

    And you can also make those same jigs and fixtures out of wood or any other raw material.

    Not by hand with the precision needed, not for the parts in question. Unless you want to risk a misfire and losing a finger.

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