this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
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Communism in theory is amazing. But it doesn't take the human animal into much consideration. We're a highly competitive hierarchical beast. We strive for our personal will to power too much for a pure communist utopia. Basically, we aren't ants or bees that can pull that kind of horizontal system off.
The idea that humans are fundamentally hierarchical and competitive creatures is just wrong. Of any indiviual trait could be said to be the character of humanity it would almost certainly be cooperation. Practically every hierarchy that humans lives takes a ton of organized forced to uphold, specifically because living in hierarchy is not natural for humans.
That's true of most people, but not everyone, and the exceptions tend to get themselves into positions of power. Therefore a system built on top-down control of the economy will inevitably become oppressive.
Are you suggesting that every child born is not subject to their parents will? There's an inherent hierarchy even at conception. Value is given naturally. Communities exist only with some sort of leadership. These are naturally occurring emergent properties of any group of people.
We are cooperative because it is in our self interest. The only inherent trait of humanity is selfishness. Communist leaders who say some are more equal than others to enrich themselves, capitalists who hoard billions from minimum wage labor -- they're the exact same.
In my fairly long time on this planet, my experience of 'human traits' has been much more positive than yours. As for leaders, yes, many are selfish. Luckily they and their disease can be avoided, and many people have grown past being infected by it.
Their kind of 'success' is reflected in their smallness and misery. Be careful ...The old 'As you reap...' adage is actually a fact.
I hope you're right.
I believe our societies are so complicated and complex, it's tough to run them when the weather is fine. As soon as problems pop up, chaos ensues, and totalitarian regimes often have an easier time dealing with them. That's the main problem IMHO, humanity having the tendency to take the path of least resistance.
I've noticed that when times get rough, people -tend- to group together and help one another, with less bitching about little shit - because life's on the line. Yeah, at those times they need to hang together to avoid cooperating with those chaotic forces ... having zero tolerance for anyone trying to take advantage.
This fundamental aspect of humanity was considered by the old comme guys . Lenin, and that. They thought humans had to be FORCED into that system, then eventually "good" communism would happen. I don't think the at has ever worked though.
Please show where that is being said by "Lenin, and that". On the other hand you have Margaret Thatcher:
Here's a pretty good source on it. https://www.jstor.org/stable/27026893?typeAccessWorkflow=login
What is this a source of? The article is paywalled and the preview mostly concerns Lenin's ambition for a stronger democracy.
Indeed.
It is the same reason a free market would never work.
This is conservative propaganda. Human nature is entirely contingent on material conditions. Given a hierarchical system, like capitalism, they will act hierarchically. It isn't rocket science.
You have been told this time and time again, but that's no reason to actually believe it. Think for yourself.
These are my own thoughts based on my personal experience with actual real people. It wasn't derived from some literature. Have you not met people? We lie, steal, cheat, and mentally and physically harm one another before any economic system ever existed.
Is it conservative propaganda that has turned every single attempt at communism into a top-heavy, authoritarian hierarchy?