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internet points (mander.xyz)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/science_memes@mander.xyz
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[–] 12 points 2 years ago (14 children)

Has there been an attempt at a charity-based distribution platform, á la Wikipedia?

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  • [–] 21 points 2 years ago (12 children)

    The challenge is the peer review system - not saying it can't be done, but facilitating quality reviews is often costly.

    There has, however, been a push to publish articles as "open access" which costs more for the author but makes it publicly available free of charge to read.

    Overall the system is still a pretty big scam, but would be difficult to make 100% free.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    The challenge is the peer review system - not saying it can’t be done, but facilitating quality reviews is often costly.

    What's the cost? People aren't paid for peer reviews, right? So, is it just difficult to arrange peer reviews?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (8 children)

    It's probably mostly administrative costs.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    Which should really be pretty minor.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    It requires full time technical staff.

    The way I see it, this "free" journal is gonna have some overhead, from servers to maintainers, coordinators, and potentially even designers to help get consistency.

    Some people may be able to support with their free time, but ultimately if those people/systems are going to be paid, the platform will need a revenue stream, and like magic we're back to square one, albeit with hopefully significantly lower profit margins.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (5 children)

    It requires full time technical staff.

    A few, but doing what? It's not like they need hundreds of people.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    For any one journal, very few, maybe even fractions of a headcount per journal, but for the thousands of journals out there spanning dozens of disciplines and hundreds of specialties, it adds up. If you want to make the end-all-be-all magic journal of all-topicness and maintain a respectable level of quality, you're going to need quite a few SMEs policing the submissions.

    There's millions of scientific papers published annually - you need people to process all of that information and moderate peer reviews.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (3 children)

    but for the thousands of journals out there

    Ok, but we're talking about thousands of dollars in fees for a single journal. There's no reason that a single journal should have costs anywhere near thousands of dollars for a single article.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (2 children)

    The average number of articles published per journal per year is ~110. Let's say a major journal publishes probably closer to 300/yr.

    Assuming you try and barebones it with 3 staff members, a technical lead for screening, a graphics / visual editor, and a peer review manager. Assume you want someone relatively competent for your journal so you pay each (inclusive of overhead & benefits) ~$150k/yr.

    $150k/yr × 3 / 300 articles = $1.5k/article

    Again, not saying it's a perfect system and things can definitely benefit from economies of scale, but it really doesn't take much to get $1k/article in expenses to pile up.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    I'm not convinced that 3 full time staff is barebones given that the writing and formatting is being done by the authors, and that a solid chunk of what normally falls under the editing umbrella is being done by peer reviewers who are also unpaid.

    Even if that is a fair representation of the cost to the journal to get the article published, that would mean they would break even, maybe even earn a profit purely on the submission fees. Never mind that multiple universities pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to subscribe to the journals.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    Not trying to break down the exact specifics of the journal business model, just trying to show there's no such thing as a free lunch peer reviewed journal.

    If you want anything of even the most mediocre of quality, there will be fees. Personally I'm fine with the fees being paid by the researchers as just a small part of the cost of doing research - it also incentivizes them to not try and publish utter garbage. One could try and crowd-fund a journal, but I don't really see how that's much better than putting the burden on the research teams.

    What I'm not okay with and needs to be fixed is anyone having to pay to view the results of publicly funded research. If my tax dollars are supporting this effort, I deserve to know that was learned.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    but facilitating quality reviews is often costly.

    States/academic institutions have to make it part of the job description of people. Get designated an editor of a journal? Your Uni understands and hands you an additional TA to lighten the load elsewhere and/or deal with the paperwork aspects.

    The reviewing itself is already done pro bono anyways.

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