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Your big brain conservtive/capitalist takes will be laughed at (lemmy.world)
submitted 3 years ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[–] 7 points 3 years ago (5 children)

Bosnia, Rwanda, and multiple acts carried out by the Janjaweed to name some of the more recent ones. Most of the other more recent ones were perpetrated by states against stateless peoples which also shouldn't speak too kindly to your narrative.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago (4 children)

    Most of the other more recent ones were perpetrated by states against stateless peoples which also shouldn't speak too kindly to your narrative.

    Well, it speaks to my narrative that states are evil.

    Bosnia, Rwanda

    Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't these nationalist movements on their way to build a state? Not the kind of stateless society Kropotkin imagined

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (3 children)

    Yes, they were trying to build a state. Building systems is a natural progression within human nature. You can try to decentralize it all you want but it just enables optimism. Anything that counts that would require centralized education, aka requiring a state to function and enforce.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (2 children)

    When I'm talking about states, I'm especially referring to nation states, hence my focus on nationalists. Sure, you can use a very broad definition, but than "state" barely means anything.

    Centralization is a core aspect of states, true. I don't see how "centralized education" is so inevitable for you? Why not a decentralized education system that focuses more on voluntariness and empowering that on enforcement?

    Last but not least: Building systems in not the same as sates building. And human nature isn't as straight forward as it seems to be. You haven't seen any other system in your life I assume, and neither have I. So it's easy to think that's just how it is. The great David Graeber once said in an interview that anthropologists have an affinity to anarchism since they know it works.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago

    Your first step is to educate literally everyone on how a stateless society works for it to work. Next you have to convince them it will work. I've known a lot more anarchists than you think. If you cannot convince literally everyone to play along, anarchy fails. You've already failed because you cannot convince me and likely will always fail for roughly 30% of the population about any topic. Counter culture will always exist. If your system does not allow for it, you have set yourself up for failure. You have set us all up for failure.

    The USSR attempted to decentralize initially and it failed miserably by their own metrics. The CCP looked at what they became and said they didn't do it right because they centralized. They starved and then centralized planning. Now you are telling me that there's never been an attempt. I'm good thanks.

    You are actively hurting people by sabotaging liberal systems that do work in favor of radical change towards a system that has absolutely literally been tried at scale. It fails and then becomes oppressive against minorities and inefficient due to not allowing dissent.

    I'm perfectly happy in a liberal mixed system where capital is owned privately and profits are shared amongst those who buy in. If you want to start an organization that shares value equally, start a co-op. Unlike anarchist systems, liberal ones allow for you to do that. Just don't expect to use the power of the state to force it on everyone else.

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