▲ 279 ▼ housing crisis in EU (thelemmy.club) submitted 1 week ago by 2pNza@lemmy.world to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.ca 41 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] grue@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago (6 children) "The law of supply and demand isn't how reality works" Sure, buddy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] ComfortableRaspberry@feddit.org 5 points 1 week ago (2 children) Doubling down, when being wrong, doesn't make it better.. I live in Germany. A lot of investors like to keep their flats empty to reduce supply in lower income brackets. They use this to force people into flats they can't afford so the investors can get more money. They love building luxury flats, people still have problems finding affordable housing. The way things currently are proofs you wrong. No matter if you like it or not. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 2pNza@lemmy.world [S] 2 points 1 week ago look at the initiative right-to-housing.eu they are collecting signatures to change that in the whole EU permalink fedilink source parent [–] grue@lemmy.world -2 points 1 week ago* A lot of investors like to keep their flats empty to reduce supply in lower income brackets. They use this to force people into flats they can't afford so the investors can get more money. Uh-huh. So by foregoing rent they make more money? Let's actually think this through: let's say that there are a bunch of landlords who each own multiple properties, and they all rent only half of them in order to, say, triple the rent on the rest (fake round numbers because it's a thought experiment). Now, what's the incentive for each individual landlord? If he's smart/greedy, he'll realize that he could rent out the rest of his units and get the 3X rent from them, too, because just his action doesn't move the market that much. So why the fuck wouldn't he do that?! And why wouldn't every landlord, acting insolation, come to the same conclusion? The only reason that wouldn't happen would be if there were some sort of vast conspiracy between landlords to collude on the strategy, and if they were doing that they could just collude on the prices themselves and make even more profit! The "they're intentionally leaving units empty to make more profit because reasons" argument just flat-out doesn't make sense. It's magical thinking to find a scapegoat. And oh by the way, even if it were somehow true, that means your actual problem is a cartel and the solution is antitrust law. Even if you were right, it's still not a reason not to build more housing!!! permalink fedilink source parent [–] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 week ago* (2 children) As long as the luxury flats get hoarded like gold ingots* there is no (significant) increase in supply. * ingots with massive value increase because of they’re low supply. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grue@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 child) So, what, you think they have infinite money to keep doing that indefinitely? That tactic only works in an environment of artificially restricted supply. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 1 week ago So, what, you think they have infinite money to keep doing that indefinitely? Correct. Compared to you and I they do. That tactic only works in an environment of artificially restricted supply. Also correct. If you mass check ground titles in Germany you might be surprised how few players own most of the land. Even before you add holdings to the calculation. It’s amazingly obvious. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ComfortableRaspberry@feddit.org 5 points 1 week ago (2 children) Doubling down, when being wrong, doesn't make it better.. I live in Germany. A lot of investors like to keep their flats empty to reduce supply in lower income brackets. They use this to force people into flats they can't afford so the investors can get more money. They love building luxury flats, people still have problems finding affordable housing. The way things currently are proofs you wrong. No matter if you like it or not. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 2pNza@lemmy.world [S] 2 points 1 week ago look at the initiative right-to-housing.eu they are collecting signatures to change that in the whole EU permalink fedilink source parent [–] grue@lemmy.world -2 points 1 week ago* A lot of investors like to keep their flats empty to reduce supply in lower income brackets. They use this to force people into flats they can't afford so the investors can get more money. Uh-huh. So by foregoing rent they make more money? Let's actually think this through: let's say that there are a bunch of landlords who each own multiple properties, and they all rent only half of them in order to, say, triple the rent on the rest (fake round numbers because it's a thought experiment). Now, what's the incentive for each individual landlord? If he's smart/greedy, he'll realize that he could rent out the rest of his units and get the 3X rent from them, too, because just his action doesn't move the market that much. So why the fuck wouldn't he do that?! And why wouldn't every landlord, acting insolation, come to the same conclusion? The only reason that wouldn't happen would be if there were some sort of vast conspiracy between landlords to collude on the strategy, and if they were doing that they could just collude on the prices themselves and make even more profit! The "they're intentionally leaving units empty to make more profit because reasons" argument just flat-out doesn't make sense. It's magical thinking to find a scapegoat. And oh by the way, even if it were somehow true, that means your actual problem is a cartel and the solution is antitrust law. Even if you were right, it's still not a reason not to build more housing!!! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 2pNza@lemmy.world [S] 2 points 1 week ago look at the initiative right-to-housing.eu they are collecting signatures to change that in the whole EU permalink fedilink source parent
[–] grue@lemmy.world -2 points 1 week ago* A lot of investors like to keep their flats empty to reduce supply in lower income brackets. They use this to force people into flats they can't afford so the investors can get more money. Uh-huh. So by foregoing rent they make more money? Let's actually think this through: let's say that there are a bunch of landlords who each own multiple properties, and they all rent only half of them in order to, say, triple the rent on the rest (fake round numbers because it's a thought experiment). Now, what's the incentive for each individual landlord? If he's smart/greedy, he'll realize that he could rent out the rest of his units and get the 3X rent from them, too, because just his action doesn't move the market that much. So why the fuck wouldn't he do that?! And why wouldn't every landlord, acting insolation, come to the same conclusion? The only reason that wouldn't happen would be if there were some sort of vast conspiracy between landlords to collude on the strategy, and if they were doing that they could just collude on the prices themselves and make even more profit! The "they're intentionally leaving units empty to make more profit because reasons" argument just flat-out doesn't make sense. It's magical thinking to find a scapegoat. And oh by the way, even if it were somehow true, that means your actual problem is a cartel and the solution is antitrust law. Even if you were right, it's still not a reason not to build more housing!!! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 week ago* (2 children) As long as the luxury flats get hoarded like gold ingots* there is no (significant) increase in supply. * ingots with massive value increase because of they’re low supply. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] grue@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 child) So, what, you think they have infinite money to keep doing that indefinitely? That tactic only works in an environment of artificially restricted supply. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 1 week ago So, what, you think they have infinite money to keep doing that indefinitely? Correct. Compared to you and I they do. That tactic only works in an environment of artificially restricted supply. Also correct. If you mass check ground titles in Germany you might be surprised how few players own most of the land. Even before you add holdings to the calculation. It’s amazingly obvious. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] grue@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 child) So, what, you think they have infinite money to keep doing that indefinitely? That tactic only works in an environment of artificially restricted supply. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 1 week ago So, what, you think they have infinite money to keep doing that indefinitely? Correct. Compared to you and I they do. That tactic only works in an environment of artificially restricted supply. Also correct. If you mass check ground titles in Germany you might be surprised how few players own most of the land. Even before you add holdings to the calculation. It’s amazingly obvious. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 1 week ago So, what, you think they have infinite money to keep doing that indefinitely? Correct. Compared to you and I they do. That tactic only works in an environment of artificially restricted supply. Also correct. If you mass check ground titles in Germany you might be surprised how few players own most of the land. Even before you add holdings to the calculation. It’s amazingly obvious. permalink fedilink source parent