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US sanctions force The Netherlands off Microsoft and toward alternative NixOS-based software ecosystem (www.tomshardware.com)
submitted 2 days ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[–] 17 points 2 days ago (13 children)

Considering the Dutch have ASML, this seems an unwise move for the US. But then, the Dogey Confederates are working towards the destruction of the USA. 😒

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    Considering the Dutch have ASML,

    That's a card which only hurts ASML if played.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    If ASML has many competitors, then yes.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    If ASML had many customers, then yes.

    Intel is ASML's single largest customer, making up a full quarter of their income. TSMC is the next biggest, but all their current expansion is in USA, so they'd probably not be able to buy anything either.

    Next then is Samsung who are also building out US fabs, but also new Korean fabs, so some of their business wouldn't be allowed.

    Global Foundries would also be out.

    ASML would have to survive losing 60% or more of their current income. They'd be gone in a year since EU countries don't/won't subsidise semiconductors. (see: The loss of Qimonda, Global Foundries stuck on 28nm in EU forever, etc)

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  • [–] 1 point 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

    ASML is the sole manufacturer of EUV machines in the world. Everyone needs ASML, not the other way around. There is no replacement for ASML.

    ASML basically decides what they want to do. Right now they align with the USA export restrictions, but that friendly relation is not guaranteed to remain. Only China is banned. ASML can still sell their machines at will otherwise.

    If ASML breaks with the USA it will be fine, but the USA won't be fine at all.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 6 points 1 day ago

    Not OP, but I don't understand your question.

    As a US citizen, I try to say "The States" instead of America when talking about my country. I do that out of respect for all of the countries that call these two beautiful American continents home.

    I admit to defaulting to "American" instead of a cumbersome "United Statesian" or the above "US Citizen." But that's what we grew up calling ourselves and told to call ourselves and our fellow countrymen.

    "Just another American Country" seems like it would be insulting to Canada, Chile and all of our neighbors in between. I'm not sure my fellow Americans would even pick up that you were talking about the States unless you really layed on thick context.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (6 children)

    How much asml machine in the us rn ? That s not how stuff work

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

    Tell us, how does "stuff work"? What up and running alternatives do the US have to ASML machines for latest generation high performance silicon? No matter where.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

    Look at asml client. Either us or Taiwan. They can't skip that market. U dont have alternative to asml yet but asml has no alternative for client either. Also fab are long term devlopement thoses contract are already lock. And asml play by american rule regarding ban export and so more. Asml is never gonna ban the us. The us can but it serve them no purpose. Asml is a public traded company. If u think they gonna loose their biggest client..... Idk what to say but that s unreal

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

    ASML plays by US rules as long as things don't escalate badly. Your arguments only work during nice weather. When things get tough, ASML is squarely located in the EU and will comply with local laws and law enforcement. That is a substantial risk for the US if it were to go for all out economic warfare, like forcing Microsoft to boycott EU customers.

    Of course ASML has no interest in such a thing, nor does Microsoft. The Single Market is a very big market for Microsoft. Also, blowing it up would not just pulverise that market, it would lead to a collapse of most of the business outside of the US in the mid term.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago* (2 children)

    So first part of your argument is saying it can happen and second part is saying why it won't happen. Yeah I agree it won't happen. And ms sell service wich isn't the same as the fucking lithography that power everything advanced under the sun.

    Ps : second time you intervenir on my comment to say I'm right by prefacing I'm wrong. Kinda funny. Waiting for the third time

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    You either deliberately misunderstand my arguments or really misunderstand them. The companies don't want that of course, but it is not entirely in their control. The EU certainly doesn't want it either. Regarding the US, it really depends. It depends on how much the strongman in DC fears that the other side can actually retaliate. A nuke's value is not that it destroys everything, its value is that it could destroy everything. Russia would not have invaded an Ukraine with nukes, yet Ukraine would likely never used any nukes even if it had them.

    Of course ASML is not the only economic nuke Europe has. If the US unleashes economic nukes on the EU by for example forcing Microsoft to block many or most services over night, the first response would be to threaten nuking the USD, with a believable threat scenario, but ASML would be a backup option.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago

    Funny you took ukraine exemple, cause they had nuke. And u will never guess who sat with Russia to give them the guarantee they won't keep their nuke. Anyway whatever you talk about it s far from reality. U could just find one export ban from the ue toward the usa that could help your point a lot dont you think ?

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