pinkdrunkenelephants comments on Garry Newman: The new Unity pricing would have cost him $410,000 of lifetime revenue

Garry Newman: The new Unity pricing would have cost him $410,000 of lifetime revenue (i.vgy.me)

submitted 3 years ago by popcar2@programming.dev to c/gamedev@programming.dev

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This is of course not including the yearly Unity subscription, where Unity Pro costs $2,040 per seat (although they may have Enterprise pricing)

Absolutely ridiculous. Many Unity devs are saying they're switching engines on social media.

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[+] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz -16 points 3 years ago* (18 children)

It’s not that it’s hard (although it definitely is), it’s literally just infeasible financially and time wise.

And yet somehow Godot exists.

Somehow, they managed to build a viable 2D and 3D open source engine without a massive AAA studio so clearly your assumptions are just wrong.

You just don't like being told you have to take responsibility for a problem someone else caused, and to that, I don't blame you. It's not right that we have to go through any of this. But honestly, it's time for us millennials to realize that putting in the elbow grease to build alternatives to what others have done to us isn't doing that, it's us building the infrastructure to allow us to move on from the powers that be, and if you want to break away from them, you have to. Your abusers will not liberate you for you.

It's time to nut up and do it now.

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[–] adriaan@sh.itjust.works 20 points 3 years ago* (10 children)

You have no idea what you're talking about my guy. First off, Godot has been in development since 2007. That's 16 years ago. Secondly, Godot started in Codenix, a consulting company that made money by licensing then-closed-source Godot. They only made it open source in 2014 - 7 years into development. This is a company that made its money through selling a game engine, not through making games. Thirdly, Godot receives funding from massive companies (e.g. they received $250k in funding from Epic Games in 2020). Fourthly, Godot is not up to par with Unreal Engine or Unity. It's NOT a viable game engine for many games being developed.

Edit: also, I'm not a milennial. I'm a zoomer. No, I'm not too young to have an opinion on this, I've been making games for 15 years.

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[+] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz -6 points 3 years ago* (9 children)

Well, now that it is open-source, we ought to take advantage of it, fork it and mod it up to our specifications. Or just make our own from scratch.

You don't have a choice if you don't want corporations to continue holding your dick in a vice. Bitch all you want; those are your options and sometimes in life you have to grow up and make hard choices that require a lot of effort, grit, determination, knowledge and courage to better your life and the lives of those around you. You want change? You better put in the elbow grease to make it happen. The only one who's going to suffer if you don't is you.

That is a hard lesson my generation refused to learn, and we suffer endlessly because of it. Don't be like us in that aspect, please.

Edit: also, I’m not a milennial. I’m a zoomer.

The mindset I was addressing largely afflicts us millennials and isn't targeted toward you. I'm not talking only to you through these comments but also to anybody else reading them, just to clarify.

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[–] SuddenlyBlowGreen@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago (7 children)

Or just make our own from scratch.

Show us yours.

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[+] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz -6 points 3 years ago* (6 children)

Sure. You can download it and uninstall Unity whenever you want. Took me literally five minutes. The only thing stopping you is you.

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[–] schzztl@lemmy.nz 2 points 3 years ago

LMAO

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[–] SuddenlyBlowGreen@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago* (4 children)

You're one of the developers of the godot engine?

Can you link your commits please?

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[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz -1 points 3 years ago (3 children)

Sarcasm is lost on you people.

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[–] SuddenlyBlowGreen@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (2 children)

I'll take that as a no.

So, how much time have you spent in game engine development?

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[+] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz -3 points 3 years ago (1 child)

[removed by mod]

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[–] SuddenlyBlowGreen@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago*

What I'm hearing is that you actually have zero experience in or knowledge of game engine development, despite telling people to make their own.

Is that correct?

To quote somebody in this thread:

"So get cracking or don't complain."

You're complaining endlessly, so show us what you made.

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[–] adriaan@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 years ago

You're not wrong that creating FOSS technologies is a worthwhile pursuit. I think what you're missing is how massive a game engine is. The average game development company simply cannot be creating its own engine or forking Godot to create a game in.

It requires a large company dedicated to engine development and tooling, and at least a decade of development, to create a worthwhile engine. If you want to make a game, fronting that development with a decade of engine development is not financially sensible. This issue is not one that game development companies can fix.

That said, if Godot meets your game and team's needs (or reasonably close to where you can reasonably develop the engine further to meet them), go for it. But it's not realistic for most developers.

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[–] Little8Lost@feddit.de 0 points 3 years ago (6 children)

You sound like you dont know anything about programming (at least engine programming). Most Engines have to run in something like assembly, else they would be too slow. (They use others too but Assembly is in like all, i am a junior dev so i could be wrong)

Assembly is already a large hurdle.
I mean it is "simple" as the arch linux type of "simple". (Nothing more than you need to run it and nothing more)

So the option is to learn assembly or hire someone (or multiple) who can, good luck by finding one that is capable of developing an engine that does not suck and does not cost a fortune.

Then you need to know what the engine should do.
If you "only" need 2D or even only some system to interact with the console you will be fine, maybe.
3D is a bit more complicated, the reason why there are so much 2D/2,5D games out supports this claim.

Then particle support if you want it...
Every feature you want has to be supported!
And every feature costs and maybe needs maintenance when bugs occur. Supporting an operating system is a feature too :)

So the engine has to be updated when a mayor OS update comes out

There are more points for why not to make an own engine and use one of the marked that fits ones needs even if it is closed source.

You where so fond of Godot so trying to help them might be a good starting point for you to life your ideals. I sincerely dont want to mock you with the sentence. If you can successfully help a larger open source project everyone is happy. If you can learn something new i am sure it can benefit you. I was only a bit mad because it felt like you are comparing engines with "weekend projects" what they are definitely not in the slightest.

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[–] frezik@midwest.social 1 point 3 years ago*

Assembly usage is pretty minor in these engines. Tends to be for just a few very tight loops. It has to be redone for every platform, too. Assembly for x86-64 doesn't work on ARM. Hell, some things on 32-bit x86 won't even work on x86-64. You would never want to do more than a function of inline ASM here or there. It'd be a nightmare if you did.

That said, it's barely even touching on the complexity of modern engines. Unity and Unreal aren't just engines, they're a whole development ecosystem.

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[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz -5 points 3 years ago (4 children)

Except it doesn't matter. No matter how hard of a pursuit it is, it is one you have to do because you don't have any other choice at this point. You can't let corporations dominate humanity because building meaningful alternatives is "too hard". People are the ones who build those engines in the first place and if that means you have to bust ass learning comp sci to do it yourself or contribute to an effort doing it, you still have to do it.

Nothing in life is easy. Do the research, learn the skillsets and material you need, and do it. No matter how hard or expensive it is, now you have to put in the work and the money.

It's either that or serfdom. Your choice. I won't lose any sleep if you refuse to though -- I'll just use Godot, add to it when I need and move on from you myself. It's up to you whether you're gonna do the same and save yourself.

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[–] frezik@midwest.social 4 points 3 years ago (3 children)

I'd like to jump out of the system for a moment and opine a few things:

People on Lemmy are generally fully aware of FOSS and support it
People on Lemmy are generally not the type who want to hand over everything to a few corporations
Even so, you're being downvoted to oblivion

And there's a very good reason for that: you are vastly understating how difficult it is to make something on the level of Unity or Unreal, and people here can see it. It's not merely difficult, but completely out of reach for anyone without hundreds of millions of existing revenue. Open source is not going to get you there anytime soon. By the time it could even get to the current level of the big two engines, those two would have already moved on to something even better.

It's not a choice between a corporate licensed engine or an open source one or an in-house one. It's a choice between a corporate engine and having a finished product in any kind of reasonable time frame, or having a finished product that's anything close to modern looking.

Now, I happen to agree with the statement "I want shorter games with worse graphics made by people who are paid more to work less and I'm not kidding". So if that's what you're getting at, then I agree. But know that this is what you're asking for.

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[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz -2 points 3 years ago* (2 children)

Even so, you’re being downvoted to oblivion

And there’s a very good reason for that:

Literally no one cares if I am being downvoted or not. I don't. No one else does. The only one immature enough to think being downvoted on some open source platform is a problem is you.

If I cared, I wouldn't say a fifth of a third of a quarter of the insane bullshit I spew out of this account every day.

You're also not listening to what I'm telling you because you don't really want to put forth the effort to do anything to better your situation, you want a positive solution handed to you and more importantly you want your emotions catered to, and neither of those beefs is my problem. That's all on you. I won't cater to your emotions or spare your feelings. Others even pointed you to an easy solution, Godot, and you still whine. Therefore the problem is you.

I will be over here chilling and using Godot while you whine, cry and complain. The only one who's gonna suffer is you. 😎

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[–] frezik@midwest.social 2 points 3 years ago (1 child)

That's a naive way of pretending to be above it all. People downvote for a reason, and it can be useful to think about those reasons. Meanwhile, while complaining that "You’re also not listening to what I’m telling you . . . " while clearly not even bothering to address most of my points.

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[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz -2 points 3 years ago

You can sit there and try to convince me to care all you want; I'm not going to.

Even back on .world when I told you all to get rid of the downvote feature, you all told me that downvotes were unimportant and anyone who openly cared about them is a massive autistic nerd who desperately needs to go touch grass. Now when I don't care and you do, you complain because now you can't weaponize them to try to control me.

And that is, far and away, a you problem.

Now you can choose to waste more of your precious time on this Earth trying to get one over on me and failing or you can do what I told you to do: use Godot or make your own engine. Your choice, fam.

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