cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/52426446

US Federal Trade Commission Chairman Andrew Ferguson said on Friday he would resist describing AI agents as ​autonomous actors that "break loose" with "wills and desires of their own," suggesting the developers who instruct agents would be the ones liable ‌for harm.

"I'm going to continue as long as I am chairman to resist this anthropomorphizing of these tools," Ferguson said at the Reuters Momentum AI Austin event. "If someone tells a tool to do something, and the tool does it, I don't think we would say, 'Oh, what do we do about the tool?'"

Ferguson's remarks illustrated potential avenues for the Trump administration to take ​as incidents rise in which agentic AI testing resulted in unauthorized access to corporate or government data.

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[–] 68 points 13 hours ago (14 children)

About frigging time someone said this. Now enforce it!

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  • [–] [S] 15 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (9 children)

    Just for comprehension... Who exactly should be liable?

    Companies which build "ai" models (LLMs)?

    Companies which use them?

    Software developers?

    Evil black hats with bad intentions?

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  • [–] 11 points 9 hours ago

    Easy.

    Replace "manager" with "prompter" and "employee" with "LLM".

    The manager told the employee to do something.

    Afterwards, something bad happened.

    Did the employee do what the manager told it to do. And the bad situation is a consequence of following those instructions? Yes -> manager's fault. No -> employee's fault.

    Did the employee do something illegal (or against some other rule)? Yes -> employees fault

    The thing requested was illegal to request (or against some other rule)? Yes -> Manager's fault

    Note that more than one thing can be true at the same time. So even if the employee does whatever the manager told it to do. If that thing was illegal to do, both of them are at fault.

    If it's the "manager"'s fault -> the prompter is liable

    If it's the "employee"'s fault -> the LLM company is liable.

    Easy as that. It works like any other situation.

    If any machine has been properly maintained and malfunctions, the maker of that machine is liable. If the operator was using a chainsaw to cut through concrete and the chainsaw malfunctions the operator (and whoever (if anyone) ordered the operator to do that) is liable.

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  • [–] 19 points 11 hours ago* (1 child)
    1. Yes, they built them and knew the possible consequences.
    2. Yes, they bought tokens for them and now certainly know the potential consequences.
    3. Not if they as employees were ordered by their bosses (see 1. and 2.) to use it or face firing (unless whistleblower protections become an actual thing again, which they aren't these days -- then employees woudl be expected to blow the whistle).
    4. Yes, if we can find out who they were.
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  • Same as with any tool. If your boss orders you to use some power tool and this causes and injury or death then your boss should be held responsible, if you decided to do it on your own, then you should be held responsible, if it turns out the tool had a critical manufacturing defect which caused this incident, then sometimes the manufacturer needs to be held responsible. Not really a new concept.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 hours ago

    All of them. there's enough liability to go around, if people want to fuck around with this garbage they can be responsible when it goes off the rails.

    put enough people in prison for this and the message will be received to the rest.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 hours ago (1 child)

    FTC chairman's comments sound reasonable on the surface, but just vague enough to be meaningless.

    It sounds to me like the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument, but a first draft attempt to put AI issues away from the tool. Then, his definition of 'developer' is unclear.

    With guns the argument is more straightforward, the tool is made to send projectiles in one direction when a user pulls the trigger.

    With AI, does the end user know what the tool is capable of doing to achieve their goal when they direct it to do something?

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  • [–] 7 points 10 hours ago

    No, they don't know precisely what the tool will do, it's unpredictable, but they do know it's capable of dangerous shenanigans, they do know that they don't have oversight or control of all it's actions. They know it's risky to use so they should take at least some responsibility.

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  • [–] 5 points 12 hours ago (3 children)

    It's important to hold people accountable, but it's also important to consider regulation that might be needed specifically for AI. I'm concerned this might be similar to the "guns don't kill people" framing that's used to resist gun control.

    Plus, this is more attention on those hacking test exercises that led to AIs doing hacking. That's a distraction from the real causes of concern around AI: environmental impact, job loss, fraud

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  • [–] 4 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

    Guns don't kill people is a ridiculous argument that no one believes, but people who like guns fall back on as a last refuge, and it is good enough to dig your heals in, so they can keep their toys. Also the 2nd amendment is the real reason gun control is hard, not arguments.

    The difference is there are a lot more gun owners than AI supporters, so unbelievable arguments don't really work when you don't have a population primed to ignore the obvious fallacies.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 child)

    Over 99.9% of gun owners do so responsibly, without hurting anyone or breaking any laws. To tell 99.9% of people they're not allowed to do something becasue less than 0.1% of people abused their right to it, should be a very concerning idea to anyone who claims to live in a free society.

    If it was a simple matter of availability, then other countries with just high and higher rates of gun ownership as the US would see the same violence problems. But, that isn't the case, those countries don't have the same problems as the US.

    All bans do is make people feel better about "solving" a problem without committing real time, money, and effort to an actual solution. I don't want to see another gun ban because I'd rather see something happen that will actually reduce instances of gun violence.

    A problem with gun violence isn't a problem with guns, it's a problem with violence. Treat the underlying issues of violence: poverty, unemployment, homelessness, drug addiction, and mental health, and the problem will be solved.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 hours ago*

    It's the type of guns people are allowed to own. They are absurd.

    You kinda make my point that you only need .0001% of a population to kill hundreds kids...and that is only posible with this fun toy.

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