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They might even add radars instead of weights if you order in bulk (thelemmy.club)
submitted 1 day ago by to c/noncredibledefense@sh.itjust.works
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[–] 11 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (4 children)

Ahh the classic "you couldn't possibly say that if you understood, everyone but me is ignorant, I hold the sole truth" gambit.

If it comes down to brass tacks the US is worse than China, it's literally only been a handful of month since they massacred a school full of little kids, executed Caribbean boat crews without even a semblance of legal cause or process and shot civilians in the street with zero accountability (to just nominate some highlight from the last 6 months).

I'll say again, they are evil twins - China is evil too. But don't go giving the Americans a pass - the only real difference is the Chinese only physically oppress their own citizens* whereas as the US are happy to massacre anyone anywhere with zero legal justification.

The Chinese haven't toppled my (edit democratically elected) govt (although they tried to bribe a lot of them), the US did. The Chinese haven't slaughtered foreign civilians in decades, and the unwarranted illegal invasion ratio is about 10:1 in the last century.

But go on then. List a Chinese atrocity, and I'll line up a matching US one.

Slaughtering citizens check. Non-consenting medical experiments, check, oppression of minorities check, limitations on free speech and free movement check (done in different ways though I will acknowledge).

Both evil, both a pox on the planet.

Any differences (and there are some) are not enough to remove the evil twins tag - they're not identical twins though - more fraternal.

*Acknowledging that some of China's citizens really don't want to be citizens, same as a lot of people are under the American thumb that don't want to be.

Edit to add "democratically elected" to forestall assumptions about toppling dictators - held a huge popular mandate in fact (that should only narrow it down to about 20 of the times the US has over-turned govts lol)

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  • [+] -8 points 23 hours ago (3 children)

    You want to show them as equal, but the scale is badly mismatched, and I'm not going to play "match this atrocity" with you, because that game ignores the thing that matters most. Every example you listed is known because Americans can expose their own government. Reporters dug up the Minab strike, families are suing over the boat strikes in federal court, and people are protesting in the streets. That process is slow and often fails, but it exists. In China, the people who try to expose the government get silenced. Doctors who warned about COVID were reprimanded, and protesters were detained. Xinjiang, Tiananmen, and Hong Kong are either denied or defended, and nobody inside the country can push back without risking prison. So, what do you actually value? If a free press, independent courts, and the right to criticize your own government matter to you, then these aren't twins, even fraternal ones. If they don't matter, say so.

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  • [–] 7 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

    LOL, get chatGPT or Claude to re-draft the response it has AI tells all over.

    Anyway, nice attempt to divert from your original premise - your premise is that China is much worse for atrocities

    quote "You should read up more about the horrors that China commits" unquote

    And now it's not the atrocities that matter, it's the fact that people can complain about them (like that is making any difference, has one of those US protests stopped mango mussolini from doing whatever he wants ?).

    Firstly the ship sized hole in that argument is that the US has denied blue in the face that they blew up that school full of kids, we know about it not because the US has magnanimously allowed us to, but because other countries have satellites, planes, etc and have pieced it together.

    Secondly, yes it is the atrocities that matter, Americans ability to protest is getting removed from them every day, but that really isn't the point. The point is doing bad things is bad (I can't believe I need to say that).

    The point is killing foreign citizens with no lawful cause is bad

    Toppling foreign democratically elected govts is bad

    ** Surveillance of your own people AND foreigners is bad**

    They both do all those things, although the US does it more, and deeper into foreign polities.

    So you can try and divert off onto the US having better free speech but it is utterly irrelevant, in the game of civilian repression slaughter and maltreatment the US and China are both equally evil, and the US is getting worse by the day.

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  • [–] -2 points 23 hours ago (1 child)

    Fine, I won't use any form of grammar or spell check on this post, so you can shove the AI argument up your ass.

    It's fine to call me out that I shifted positions, so I'll connect them so you don't think I'm moving the goal posts. Accountability isn't separate from atrocities, it determines whether they stop or continue unabated. We'll look at Minab, since that seems to be something you like to talk about. The details about that came from inside the house... US goverment officials leaked that to PBS and Bloomberg. The government's own people exposed it to the press. That doesn't happen in China. And your idea of equal is itself unequal. You are weighing the foreign actions of the US with your thumb on the scale, and then looking at what China does within its own borders as though those people don't matter. Humans are humans. It doesn't matter where the problem occurs. Whether China is acting within its own borders or without, it's still a boot crushing humans, and fuck you if you think otherwise, honestly. And as far as the argument for the US getting worse, I don't disagree. However, the reason you know it's getting worse is because you can read about it in our own papers.

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  • [–] 3 points 22 hours ago*

    Lol, well I certainly prefer a feisty real human to Claude's obsequiousness, although I'm not entirely convinced you actually did but I'll argue with you whether generated by a human or a bot so it is neither here nor there.

    Quote: "Accountability isn't separate from atrocities, it determines whether they stop or continue unabated" unquote

    So from where I'm sitting the constraints on the Tangerine Tyrant seem to be trivial and of little consequence, the few times he's been legally reined in he's quickly found a workaround or just straight up ignored the courts, and sure as hell none of the other supposed checks and balances are doing anything to stop the US sliding into fascism. I'd love to see your proof that he's been held accountable for well, ANYTHING. Epstein files showing he's a pedo rapist, nothing happened, loses sexual assault case - still hasn't paid the bill, blah blah no accountability. Or do you mean accountability for the senior leadership ? Hegseth hasn't even been charged with murder of those Caribbean sailors let alone held accountable for it.

    This accountability seems to be rather foggy and mirage like. Sure as hell the atrocities haven't stopped so bottom line your accountability thesis doesn't seem to be showing much in the way of results - I think we can dismiss that argument.

    " We'll look at Minab, since that seems to be something you like to talk about."

    Yes the massacre of children does upset me, does it not upset you ?

    "The details about that came from inside the house... US goverment officials leaked that to PBS and Bloomberg."

    Bullshit. Show me the proof. The details hit non US publications like Al Jazeera and the Guardian DAYS before PBS and Bloomberg published anything that suggested the US was culpable, and the US govt is still denying it to this day - they walked out of the UN rather than look at the pictures of the little kids they killed.

    quote "Whether China is acting within its own borders or without, it's still a boot crushing humans, and fuck you if you think otherwise, honestly" unquote

    Nice attempt to misrepresent me - do I need to copy in quotes of the MULTIPLE times I said China was also evil ?

    False dichotomy.

    My position is that China and the US are both evil, in slightly different ways around the edges I'll grant, but in broad strokes, a pox on both of them.

    You've done nothing to present a case that the US is not evil, you've just done some arm wavy whataboutisms and misdirections to try and distract from the point.

    USA and China both evil, evil fraternal twins.

    EDIT just noticed an opportunity for you to try the weasel words on for size, so to be clear PBS and Bloomberg reported the school got hit in roughly the same timeframe as the rest, what they did NOT do is lead the reporting on who was responsible. There's a world of difference between reporting civilian casualties and admitting it was a US bomb that killed them. That accusation was levelled by the foreign press first. Not that it really matters. The US is busily removing the freedom of the press and consolidating them all under dictator friendly oligarchs anyway.

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