▲ 343 ▼ Authoritarian! (thelemmy.club) submitted 5 days ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/socialism@lemmy.ml 431 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world -1 points 2 days ago (13 children) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 days ago (12 children) The Soviet Union indeed had a famine in the 1930s. Is your point that it was deliberate? That's a popular theory among fascists and used to be popular among liberal historians, but opening the Soviet archives proved the socialists correct, that it was largely caused by weather disaster and some degree of mismanagement. It was also the last famine outside of World War II in the Soviet Union, because by the time of the famine's end agriculture had been successfully collectivized. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (11 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago (3 children) Famines were extremely common in both Tsarist Russia and feudal China. Their respective famines in the beginning were ended because they developed out of that underdeveloped form of agriculture. This is not difficult to understand. Why compare the Soviet Union and PRC to capitalist countries, when we should be comparing them to their former selves? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world -1 points 1 day ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago (1 child) No, what's toxic is comparing countries with wildly different circumstances and prior levels of development without properly contextualizing. The famines were not caused by communism, nor mismanagement. The famines were caused by a combination of weather disaster and dramatic underdevelopment of agriculture, which is why both regions commonly had famine before, and why both countries had these as their last famines outside wartime, as they industrialized. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 0 points 23 hours ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 1 day ago (6 children) Jeez, you had me until "NGO." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 3 points 1 day ago (4 children) You do know bigger NGOs receiver government funding, beholding them to said government? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world -1 points 1 day ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 23 hours ago (2 children) Not all NGOs are bad; NED, HRW, AI are problematic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 22 hours ago Fair enough. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 days ago (12 children) The Soviet Union indeed had a famine in the 1930s. Is your point that it was deliberate? That's a popular theory among fascists and used to be popular among liberal historians, but opening the Soviet archives proved the socialists correct, that it was largely caused by weather disaster and some degree of mismanagement. It was also the last famine outside of World War II in the Soviet Union, because by the time of the famine's end agriculture had been successfully collectivized. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (11 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago (3 children) Famines were extremely common in both Tsarist Russia and feudal China. Their respective famines in the beginning were ended because they developed out of that underdeveloped form of agriculture. This is not difficult to understand. Why compare the Soviet Union and PRC to capitalist countries, when we should be comparing them to their former selves? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world -1 points 1 day ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago (1 child) No, what's toxic is comparing countries with wildly different circumstances and prior levels of development without properly contextualizing. The famines were not caused by communism, nor mismanagement. The famines were caused by a combination of weather disaster and dramatic underdevelopment of agriculture, which is why both regions commonly had famine before, and why both countries had these as their last famines outside wartime, as they industrialized. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 0 points 23 hours ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 1 day ago (6 children) Jeez, you had me until "NGO." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 3 points 1 day ago (4 children) You do know bigger NGOs receiver government funding, beholding them to said government? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world -1 points 1 day ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 23 hours ago (2 children) Not all NGOs are bad; NED, HRW, AI are problematic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 22 hours ago Fair enough. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (11 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago (3 children) Famines were extremely common in both Tsarist Russia and feudal China. Their respective famines in the beginning were ended because they developed out of that underdeveloped form of agriculture. This is not difficult to understand. Why compare the Soviet Union and PRC to capitalist countries, when we should be comparing them to their former selves? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world -1 points 1 day ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago (1 child) No, what's toxic is comparing countries with wildly different circumstances and prior levels of development without properly contextualizing. The famines were not caused by communism, nor mismanagement. The famines were caused by a combination of weather disaster and dramatic underdevelopment of agriculture, which is why both regions commonly had famine before, and why both countries had these as their last famines outside wartime, as they industrialized. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 0 points 23 hours ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 1 day ago (6 children) Jeez, you had me until "NGO." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 3 points 1 day ago (4 children) You do know bigger NGOs receiver government funding, beholding them to said government? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world -1 points 1 day ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 23 hours ago (2 children) Not all NGOs are bad; NED, HRW, AI are problematic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 22 hours ago Fair enough. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago (3 children) Famines were extremely common in both Tsarist Russia and feudal China. Their respective famines in the beginning were ended because they developed out of that underdeveloped form of agriculture. This is not difficult to understand. Why compare the Soviet Union and PRC to capitalist countries, when we should be comparing them to their former selves? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world -1 points 1 day ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago (1 child) No, what's toxic is comparing countries with wildly different circumstances and prior levels of development without properly contextualizing. The famines were not caused by communism, nor mismanagement. The famines were caused by a combination of weather disaster and dramatic underdevelopment of agriculture, which is why both regions commonly had famine before, and why both countries had these as their last famines outside wartime, as they industrialized. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 0 points 23 hours ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world -1 points 1 day ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago (1 child) No, what's toxic is comparing countries with wildly different circumstances and prior levels of development without properly contextualizing. The famines were not caused by communism, nor mismanagement. The famines were caused by a combination of weather disaster and dramatic underdevelopment of agriculture, which is why both regions commonly had famine before, and why both countries had these as their last famines outside wartime, as they industrialized. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 0 points 23 hours ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago (1 child) No, what's toxic is comparing countries with wildly different circumstances and prior levels of development without properly contextualizing. The famines were not caused by communism, nor mismanagement. The famines were caused by a combination of weather disaster and dramatic underdevelopment of agriculture, which is why both regions commonly had famine before, and why both countries had these as their last famines outside wartime, as they industrialized. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 0 points 23 hours ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 0 points 23 hours ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 1 day ago (6 children) Jeez, you had me until "NGO." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 3 points 1 day ago (4 children) You do know bigger NGOs receiver government funding, beholding them to said government? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world -1 points 1 day ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 23 hours ago (2 children) Not all NGOs are bad; NED, HRW, AI are problematic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 22 hours ago Fair enough. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 3 points 1 day ago (4 children) You do know bigger NGOs receiver government funding, beholding them to said government? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world -1 points 1 day ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 23 hours ago (2 children) Not all NGOs are bad; NED, HRW, AI are problematic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 22 hours ago Fair enough. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 3 points 1 day ago (4 children) You do know bigger NGOs receiver government funding, beholding them to said government? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world -1 points 1 day ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 23 hours ago (2 children) Not all NGOs are bad; NED, HRW, AI are problematic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 22 hours ago Fair enough. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world -1 points 1 day ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 23 hours ago (2 children) Not all NGOs are bad; NED, HRW, AI are problematic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 22 hours ago Fair enough. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 23 hours ago (2 children) Not all NGOs are bad; NED, HRW, AI are problematic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 22 hours ago Fair enough. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 22 hours ago Fair enough. permalink fedilink source parent