1023
Profit over people is a failed system (thelemmy.club)
submitted 13 hours ago by to c/workreform@lemmy.world
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[–] 2 points 2 hours ago (1 child)

Nice way to cut off "killing each other to extinction" so you could make your point. You had to misquote me to do this.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 hour ago (1 child)

    What part of

    So no, we're not some essentially altruistic species that only survived to procreate and evolve due to our perfect selflessness.

    did you miss?

    Humans didn't go extinct, not because we're altruistic, but because we're self-interested. The post-WWII peace period (again, very relative), the UN, the rules-based-order, nuclear non-proliferation; there's about four reasons why we didn't go extinct in just the last century, and every single one of those reasons only happened because of nations engaging due to self-interest.

    It's also too early to claim humans haven't wiped ourselves out yet, because so far it's looking like nothing is going to be done to stop climate change or AI from leading to our extinction, unless the oligarch-class decides it's in their self-interest to do something to stop it; or, ideally, concerned citizens acting in self-interest finally convince their political representative (who are also, by the way, acting in self-interest) to impose and enforce regulations to put a halt to that destruction.

    Humans didn't survive the past several millennia since the dawn of settled civilizations because of altruism. All along the way, civilizations have been conquering, overthrowing, dominating, colonizing, and enslaving each other. They keep the local people alive (when they do) only out of self-interest, because slaves and serfs are more valuable to them than corpses.

    Now, before you misattributed evil inclinations to me, I'm not saying there's anything morally right or good or just about that. But no honest reading of history will tell you anything to the contrary.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 hour ago (1 child)

    If the natural instinct of human fucking beings was to just murder and cheat each other we would never have formed society to get into wars in the first fucking place. It takes trust and mutual aid to build society. I dont need to read your madman eugenics scrawlings about the finality of evil to disprove this. The world we live in literally would not even exist in the capacity it does if human society was built on deception instead of trust. This is factually why it is falling about now.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 hour ago* (1 child)

    If the natural instinct of human fucking beings was to just murder and cheat each other we would never have formed society to get into wars in the first fucking place.

    Yes we would have. And we did. It was all in self-interest.

    It takes trust and mutual aid to build society.

    That's just the expansion of in-groups due to expediency. Show me the society, in history or modern times, that reached the level of perfectly altruistic cosmopolitanism, inclusion, tolerance, multiculturalism, diversity, or whatever else you want to call it. Because that's what you seem to be claiming humanity is and has been from the start.

    I dont need to read your madman eugenics scrawlings about the finality of evil to disprove this.

    See, I knew you would try to attribute some weird shit like that to me. Nothing I said was in support of eugenics. In fact I outright reject them as I consider them an atrocity. But if you think eugenics hasn't featured prominently in human history, then you haven't been paying close enough attention. And denying that reality is a disservice to all of its victims in past, present, and future.

    I also said nothing about "the finality of evil." I said it's not the default state of humanity. I never said it can't be our destiny. I would love to believe it is. I don't know the future, but I certainly believe it's possible. I feel less and less convinced as time goes on that it's even remotely likely, at least in the next several hundred years. But I'm certain that it's not a guarantee.

    The world we live in literally would not even exist in the capacity it does if human society was built on deception instead of trust.

    Yes it would. And I hate to break this to you, but, it is.

    This is factually why it is falling about now.

    Yes. Finally a statement I can agree with.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 hour ago (1 child)

    m4ks3oOShABxcuM.jpg

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  • [–] 1 point 1 hour ago (1 child)

    I see you have nothing rational to add to the discussion.

    Observing a characteristic of society is not a statement of my personal dispositions. And this is at least the third time in this short conversation that you've attempted to conflate the two.

    It seems that in order to be a considered a good person in your view, someone has to believe that all humans are perfectly good and just beings and human society has never had a flaw worth mentioning. That's called "toxic positivity" and ironically enough is a tool often used by fascism.

    It's the same thing as when magats deny that slavery and genocide played a prominent role in the founding of the United States. But you probably think me pointing that out is an expression of support for those atrocities, so I can't expect you to have anything rational to say in response. I don't know why I even try.

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