BurnedDonutHole comments on Today I learned that, unlike Hollywood depicts it, ancient Troy was not part of the european/hellenic cultural sphere. It was a purely Anatolian indigenous polity, similar to the Hittites (In fact, T…

[–] BurnedDonutHole@ani.social -1 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Claiming ancient Greek culture has deep roots from Anatolia is a Western narrative if you ask me. Considering the Greek culture only managed to get in and establish footholds at mostly the shorelines with the Sea People's invasions from the west and never managed to establish full control over Anatolia or hold their holdings for a relatively long time. By your definition you can call the Ottoman Empire having deep roots in Europe. Considering they conquered Kosovo before Istanbul. Roots and historical ties are very different things.

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[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

I said Greek culture, not ancient Greek culture. And yes, even if you ignore 2/3rds of Greek history, you still end up with deep roots in Asia Minor, from the early Iron Age onwards. Ionia, Aeolis, and Doris were not just shallow "footholds"and definitely by the time the Romans arrived could very well be described as areas with deep Greek roots.

And, duh, yes of course we should be saying that the Ottoman Empire has deep deep European roots, wtf are you even disputing here?

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[–] BurnedDonutHole@ani.social 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Again it seems you're mistaking roots of a culture with historical ties/relations and bundling up ancient Greek culture with Greek culture is another obvious mistake you make. Considering the ancient Greeks and Greeks after Christianity are two very different cultures. Meanwhile calling Ottomans having deep roots in Europe shows how much your mix and match the cultures. By your definition Atilla the Hun must be rooted in Europe as well considering he achieved his fame in Europe's history and Genghis Khan must be rooted in China or Anatolia or Arabic Peninsula. If you can't see the difference between roots and historical ties/relations there is nothing to talk about.

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[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

What do you mean by "roots"? It looks like we are thinking of different meanings. I think you are strictly thinking of "origins". I use "roots" as something that can be developed over time, as in "take root" and I take seriously the development of these roots over centuries. Contrary to ancient Athenian belief, people don't spring up from the ground (autochtony), they wander and take root. Ultimately we all originate from some African plateau.

Greeks did not originate in Asia Minor, but by the time Alexander set off to conquer Persia, they were extremely well rooted in the coastal regions and were already a core part of Greek civilization.

The Huns disappeared. The Magyars on the other hand didn't. Yes they originate in the steppe, but they are deeply rooted in Hungary.

As to whether Christianity dissects Greek culture, and as to how profoundly that is, ...well, άσε και σε μας τους Έλληνες να έχουμε μια άποψη για τον πολιτισμό μας.

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[–] BurnedDonutHole@ani.social 1 point 2 months ago

Yes, we all came from Africa and yet we all managed mingle, change and to develop distinct different cultures along the way. This doesn't make Greek, German, French or any other cultures rooted in Africa. They all originated somewhere along the way. Roots means the origin of a culture where it comes from and where it was first established. Considering the Greek culture was already established by the time of the war of Troy, it came from modern day Greece geographically to Anatolia. The ancient Greeks were seeing Troy as a foreign kingdom other that Greek, Heredotus and others write so.

As for the Huns, yes they disappeared and turned into different cultures like the Magyars and Bulgars. They are established as these culture where they are now, distinct from the Huns. They have historical ties to the Huns.

As for your culture of course you are entitled to your opinion, however writing in Greek doesn't mean your culture and the ancient Greek is the same culture. Anyways, I wish you a pleasant day and I hope I made my point clear.

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