cross-posted from: https://piefed.social/c/noncredibledefense/p/1490862/the-correct-response
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It's worth noting that in the 1990's while the rest of easter EUR, particularly PO, RO, and CZ tweaked their economies and societies in whatever way was necessary at the time in order to get their asses into NATO and the EU, Ukraine spent 30 years dawdling, unsure if they wanted to face east or west. Shame on them for that. They created their own monster by being irresolute, unlike the Poles and Romanians who also HATE Russia, know history, in some respects share a common history with all of eastern EUR, and see very clearly. A fair amount of UKR's indecision was due to Russian meddling in politics there, but by the time UKR woke the fuck up about Russia's nature and intentions it was almost too late. That timeline takes us to the year 2022, approximately. UKR is still corrupt as fuck, nobody knows who can be trusted and they are putting tremendous effort into reforming their legal system, politics and military structures to conform with EU/NATO norms. If they had been this decided (instead of divided) back in 2014, they'd have been in the EU AND NATO by now. They are paying the price for their dawdling and indecision, fuelled mainly by post-soviet corruption mentality which they are rueing and repenting of almost too late..
I say this as someone who actually supports Ukraine. But I am not blind to their faults, either.
Bruh Ukraine is no more corrupt than Romania/Hungary/Bulgaria. Even during the war civil society was able to defend anticorruption institutions.
The decision not to take Ukraine into EU/NATO is purely based on politics - specifically being afraid of russia.
there was a 20 year window where RU was to weak to threaten anybody with any thing. That would have been the time, if UKR had seen the opportunity like the Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, and Romanians did. A costly mistake.
Don't take this the wrong way but as someone who has lived and worked in many of the countries you mentioned - you're full of s**t and your hyper-simplified version of history is as cute as it is cartoonish.
well maybe you can enlighten us all with some of your insights if you know so much about these things.
that's a lot more work than calling people names. you down?
Well they had the downside of the russian army being at their borders and a massive russian speaking minority ...
this is also true. but they also lacked direction and a national sense of self.. right up until the last minute when Russia was about to swallow them and the jaws were closing. If they had that sense 10 or 20 years earlier they'de be in a different situation. Russia's actions are Russian/Commie imperialism 101.. take an ethnically or politically divided state and invade it. slowly. Maybe UKR will be better as a divided state. For some bizarre reason, the further south and east you go in EUR the more the Slavs in those regions love their mono-ethnic states, for some reason. Even to the degree of cutting off their noses to spite their faces. Something fundamentally warped about the Slavic mind.