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Threadiverse Major Defederations Graph (thelemmy.club)
submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by to c/fediverse@lemmy.world
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In the graph above I've arranged the 28 Threadiverse instances with at least 200 monthly active users (MAU)—orange instances running Lemmy, green Piefed, and red Mbin—on the basis of which instances they defederate.

Each instance has its MAU count listed below it, sourced from the latest MAU figures at Fediverse Observer, with adjustments made to the totals for Piefed (due to undercounting by outdated instances, as noted here; I used @Vicinus@piefed.zip's suggested estimate of 7,200 Piefed users) and Mbin (due to tardigram.com having a duplicate listing).

After adjustments, there are an estimated 43,287 monthly active Threadiverse users (35,184+7,200+903), of whom 87.84% are on the 28 largest instances. The percentages listed alongside the MAU figures correspond to each instance's share of the total MAU count.

Defederation data was sourced from Federation Checker. The tool doesn't support Mbin instances, so I left fedia.io in its own category. If any defederations are missing, feel free to let me know. Ideally such a chart should also include community blocks to better illustrate which instances block what, but that data doesn't appear to be as easily searchable.

I also noticed cases of some instances being listed as being defederated by another instance, despite not appearing on the defederation list for that instance (i.e. reddthat.com and lemmygrad.ml are listed as being mutually blocked, despite neither having the other on their block lists). In testing that federation, I noticed that !wholesome@reddthat.com did not federate to Lemmygrad while !memes@reddthat.com did, so clarification on that matter would be helpful.

While I'll update my generalized chart as needed to correct errors, perhaps at some point an automated federation mapping tool similar to the one feddit.de formerly hosted could be developed to more completely illustrate instance federation.

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[–] 62 points 2 months ago (39 children)

I say, I really don’t get why so many people stay over on Reddit.

This might be a micro version of the actual future internet, where we walk away from the global model and split it into ideological countries who believe the best way forward is to stop talking to the other group.

We’ve come a long way from drawing artificial lines on maps.

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  • [–] 97 points 2 months ago (18 children)

    The fediverse is great if you fall into the like 5 interests that are pretty well represented here.

    But if the communities you wanna engage with aren't really active enough for potential posters to not just forget they exist, or you don't really want to be on a platform where 75% of the front page is news or memes about the state of the world politically, its not neccisarily a great replacement to reddit

    For me it happens to cover enough of my bases, but I can get why it wouldn't for many people.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Just like in real life, one must grow and sometimes create the communities they want to be apart of.

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  • [–] 35 points 2 months ago

    While thats true, if my friend whose biggest interests are science informed dog training and animal genetics joins the threadiverse there are not enough people here who genuinely really care about those subjects to actually sustain any of the social connection she's looking for around them.

    If my friend who's super into basketball and competitive league of legends join she'd have at least a couple people to talk to, but its fundamentally not what she's looking for to talk to exactly 3 other people who care about the thing she's into.

    I try to remember that as much as I love the fediverse and feel at home here, it has real limitations for lots of people, and its okay if its not in a state they can go enjoy very easily. This is a space that I am passionate about and want to contribute to. I don't expect everyone to do labor to invest in a space that isnt their passion just to chat with folks when they have the ability to chat with folks somewhere else, even if that place has bigger picture downsides or harms associated with it.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (9 children)

    I've said this a number of times over the past couple days, but if there's an instance for mirroring subreddits, where niche subreddits that don't have an equivalent here yet basically get a carbon copy and a repost bot to stock them with relevant stuff from over there, that could fill in some of those gaps and make the fediverse a more attractive alternative.

    It won't have the same level of engagement right away, but it will provide a place for that engagement to occur, and as more people start using it it will create a network effect. As things stand now, we're missing a lot of those niche communities.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    This approach is honestly a non-starter. It lacks organic engagement, and most of the posts from people who do this have no comments or very few. It also tends to end up with one person flooding with a bunch of shit they didn't read. Personally, I usually block this as meaningless attention seeking, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    If you want to put it that way, you could also argue that anything posted on the threadiverse, or even more broadly, on the internet, is meaningless attention seeking.

    Or you could recognize that we need more content on the threadiverse to get more people engaged to reach the critical mass where we have a network effect which encourages more organic engagement, so anybody posting is doing their part to contribute to a greater cause.

    If they set up a comm with a bot to repost the top three posts a day from a specific reddit comm, what's the problem? Depending on the instance, maybe the admins don't want to host that and view it as bloat. They can make their own rules. But on an instance that allows it, or on someone's own instance, what's the problem?

    If someone doesn't want to see it, they can block the comm. If nobody upvotes it, it won't clog the all feed. If nobody comments on it, what's the issue if it just sits there and stays empty?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    Someone explained that that exists and hasnt connected with people, but I think a big part of why it hasnt is that theres no real social drive to comment or engage with something if theres zero chance the poster might see it. It kinda feels like you're just speaking into the void, or talking to yourself

    Thats how I feel about it at least 🤷🏻‍♂️ if a human reposts stuff at least you can chat with the reposter about it, if its the kind of post where that makes sense. If the post is a "hey look at this thing I did", the reposter can't really say how it went or discuss the experience

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    That makes sense. I guess it would mainly only work for posts linking to articles, but we already have that honestly

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah. Honestly I feel like if it were to be helpful the best application would probably be a mixed one, where a mod still uses and checks the inbox on the not account. So only partially automated, and only makes up some of the posted content

    And I think it'd probably also work best if the mod picked what was to cross post and it could all just be put into a que, rather than just cross posting anything and everything. That way they can select stuff that would make sense to post even if they aren't the originator: memes, articles, info-posts/guides, etc.

    It'd still be less work than manually finding a ton of stuff to post, but still be much more intentional and interactive feeling.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    It really is pretty dead outside the main subjects. I have noone to talk about the latest episode of My Adventures with Superman. Did they now just leave the other universe with Clark dead? That sucks.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Maybe try making a post on one of the movies or shows comms (I'm not familiar with it and don't know if its a movie or a show. Though you can also just post where people are.)

    c/casual_conversations can also be a place to chat

    I think in some cases on the threadiverse communities just have to be more catchall, because there aren't enough people to congregate around a more specific topic. But there may be other people out there who would love to chat about that with you, even if there aren't enough for a specific community for the show

    (Apologies if youve already tried this, I just had the problem solving thought and figured I'd share. If its not helpful thats okay :)

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    I do want to watch that. It's in my list of shows to watch one the first season is done. I normally don't follow western animation or comics, but he's so derpy I think it'll be endearing enough for me to enjoy.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago

    You can still choose one that talks to everybody else. In fact, this graphic might be a nice tool for new users who want advice beyond "Just choose any instance, it doesn't matter" or "Just use lemmy.world".

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I can understand people staying on Reddit more than those staying on Twitter to be honest.

    At least spez hasn't gone full nazi yet, or provided tools for generating pedophilia.

    Both of which people seem to be perfectly fine with. So it doesn't surprise me they're fine with Reddit too.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    This might be a micro version of the actual future internet, where we walk away from the global model and split it into ideological countries who believe the best way forward is to stop talking to the other group.

    Reminds me of the world depicted in The Diamond Age. The setting is perhaps our world a few decades in the future, where the role of countries has faded and instead life is organised via fragmented, extremely diverse patchwork of phyles based on ethnic or ideological affiliation, but entirely irrespective of where they geographically are (a phyle can operate in many different locations). These phyles interact via a deeply capitalistic Common Economic Protocol, where the only "human right" that matters is harm to an individual's ability for economic productivity.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    "One of the insights of the Victorian Revival was that it was not necessarily a good thing for everyone to read a completely different newspaper in the morning; so the higher one rose in the society, the more similar one’s Times became to one’s peers'."

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Well, first off, I doubt there’s much world with internet decades into the future. But if I had to do the fediverse design again, i would make defederation impossible.

    You can just know there’s a r/thedonald over there, and not go there, but everyone else is still all there.

    Creating a fediverse to federate the internet, and then casually allowing defederation is oxymoronic.

    But then you must truly accept a universally agreed on definition of what free speech constitutes. Specifically the age old question on whether free speech includes hate speech or not. (And then there’s that gray zone where hate speechers will say it is not hate speech, they’re simply saying what other’s are thinking, or it’s just their opinion)

    Gets pretty philosophical pretty quickly and in the end you might end up all the way back at this reddit + the defediverse.

    And like I said, we aint got that kind of time left.

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  • [+] -8 points 2 months ago* (12 children)

    I say, I really don’t get why so many people stay over on Reddit.

    This place fuckin sucks man? It's pretty much reddit for left wing progressives who specifically care about left wing American* politics, linux, and not much else

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  • [–] [S] 13 points 2 months ago

    While it would be nice if there were more activity, when the alternative is the ever-enshittifying Reddit, our best option is to contribute what we can here, be as welcoming as possible to new users, and block any content that isn't interesting to achieve a personalized feed of one's preferred content.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (8 children)

    You can always post eco-fascist Australian memes if that's more your thing

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  • [+] -9 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    @Zedstrian@sopuli.xyz this is what I mean, cunts everywhere in this place, why would I encourage anyone to come here?

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    Unfortunately there are too many people here who would rather be brash and rude at the hint of any disagreement, rather than discussing civilly and promoting a healthy community that is not an echo chamber.

    My best advice is to just block people who you find rude to make the remainder slightly less rude on average.

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  • [+] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] [S] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    I also don't think the Threadiverse should be an echo chamber, nor do I think that user deserved a temp ban for expressing their frustration with it. Ultimately, fewer defederations, more acceptance of differing opinions, and being welcoming of users who aren't interested in politics are the primary viable means for the platform to grow beyond being a niche echo chamber.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Ultimately, fewer defederations, more acceptance of differing opinions, and being welcoming of users who aren’t interested in politics

    The problem is those two are strongly tied to the idea that the people who come here have to be respectful enough. The people who first populated these places did it to escape from things like capitalism, right-wing nutjobs and the like; saying only "oh we have to be more accepting of difering opinions" basically puts the blame on the victim.

    As for the subjects that are not politics, we have cats and beans. That should suffice.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 month ago

    Agreement with differing ideas isn't necessary, but willingness to tolerate difference is necessary if the Threadiverse is to grow beyond 40,000 MAU.

    Given that we're already at a disadvantage due to the network effect, as long as new users aren't racist, homophobic, transphobic, fascist, or otherwise exclusionary, they shouldn't be pushed out for having differing political beliefs to the group norm. Instances need not enforce rigid orthodoxy to a broad set of beliefs to avoid becoming a Nazi bar.

    Beyond politics, many potential users would rather see non-political content in any case, something that is largely lacking compared to the broad availability of content on Reddit. Many users are unfortunately not willing to switch over without a greater proportion of such communities active here from the get-go. Even if such users join for different reasons than existing users, a greater MAU count would help reverse the user count hemorrhaging than has gradually occurred since the initial mass exodus from Reddit in 2023.

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