RiverRock comments on libs: revolution❌ delusion of voting out fascism✔️

libs: revolution❌ delusion of voting out fascism✔️ (thelemmy.club)

submitted 3 months ago by jankforlife@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml

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"Let's just vote in more ^fake^ leftists bro just one more bro it'll work bro"

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[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 months ago* (14 children)

You know AOC voted to send "defensive" iron dome rockets to Israel, right? That's like sending flak shells to Nazi Germany so they could shoot down the allied bombers trying to stop the engine of the holocaust. Of course that makes you complicit in their war crimes, you enabled them!

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[+] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world -12 points 3 months ago (13 children)

That's why her voting record on Palestine is a B instead of an A, and that's a rightful criticism many of her allies made immediately. And why she backtracked on that position. There's a difference between critisizing allies and casting them aside as if they're no different than the actual Zionists in power. But the people serious about change are the ones organizing their communities to acquire power. Online posters never have and never will any any motion when it comes to creating real change.

https://www.uscpraction.org/scorecard

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[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 months ago* (12 children)

You people couldn't acquire power if power walked into your house and nestled itself in your asscrack for warmth. The results of hundreds of years of history are in, and they say it's time for reformists to pack it in and leave the organizing to the political adults in the room.

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[+] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world -10 points 3 months ago (11 children)

In 2025, over 250 DSA members held elected public office across 40 states, with 90% elected after 2019.

Scoreboard.

DSA has gotten hundreds of socialists in positions of power to represent the working class. Please, share what power you've been able to acquire.

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[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 15 points 3 months ago (4 children)

With the entry of a socialist into the government, and class domination continuing to exist, the bourgeois government doesn’t transform itself into a socialist government, but a socialist transforms himself into a bourgeois minister. [...] The entry of a socialist into a bourgeois government is not, as it is thought, a partial conquest of the bourgeois state by the socialists, but a partial conquest of the socialist party by the bourgeois state.

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[+] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world -7 points 3 months ago (3 children)

DSA candidates are beholden to the demands of the working class, not the Democratic or Republican party nor capitalist donations.

Additionally, electing candidates to deliver material gains is only a single aspect of DSA. Along with mutual aid, labor organizing, and International solidarity campaigns to name a few.

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[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 9 points 3 months ago (2 children)

DSA candidates are beholden to the demands of the working class, not the Democratic or Republican party nor capitalist donations.

A socialist entering a capitalist government does not make that government socialist. The government’s class function remains bourgeois, and the socialist is pressured to act as a bourgeois minister in order to get their (generally minor) reforms through.

Additionally, electing candidates to deliver material gains is only a single aspect of DSA. Along with mutual aid, labor organizing, and International solidarity campaigns to name a few

Not really related to the criticism I was making at all.

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[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world -2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

“Organise!” Rabochaya Mysl keeps repeating to the workers in all keys, and all the adherents of the “economist” trend echo the cry. We, of course, wholly endorse this appeal, but we will not fail to add: organise, but not only in mutual benefit societies, strike funds, and workers’ circles; organise also in a political party; organise for the determined struggle against the autocratic government and against the whole of capitalist society. Without such organisation the proletariat will never rise to the class- conscious struggle... Not a single class in history has achieved power without producing its political leaders, its prominent representatives able to organise a movement and lead it.

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[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago

I have read Lenin, and if you think he is advocating for electing socialists to the bourgeois government as something to strive for in and of itself, you have completely misread him. Winning bourgeois elections is not the goal, or even in the same playing field as the goal, for communist electoral work. The goal is agitation: using elections to expose bourgeois democracy, spread an independent communist programme, and sharpen the working class’s understanding of the state’s class character.

This quote, and the invocation of Lenin in general, does nothing to strike against the criticism I was making. My criticism was not “organization is bad” or “a political party is unnecessary.” The opposite being obviously true. My criticism was that putting socialists into a bourgeois government does nothing to alter the class character of that government. The state remains bourgeois, and anyone entering it is forced to operate according to its rules, pressures, limits, and class function.

Again, a socialist entering a capitalist government does not make that government socialist. Rather, the socialist is pressured to act as a bourgeois minister in order to administer capitalism and get minor reforms through. The result is not the conquest of the bourgeois state by socialism, but the partial conquest of the socialist by the bourgeois state.

Lenin was arguing for an independent proletarian party capable of organizing the working class for a determined struggle against the whole of capitalist society. He was not arguing for socialists to measure power by how many seats they win inside capitalist institutions, still less for tailing a reactionary party such as the Democratic Party (which the DSA appears quite fond of, which can be seen in their actions, such as the recommendation to vote for Graham Platner: another campaign inside the Democratic Party, another refusal to break from its shadow, another retreat from building a truly independent working-class party.).

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[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (5 children)

Built a parallel mutual aid system that covers three towns and doesn't rely on the goodwill of a single war criminal. That's nice that you like voting for them though, I'm sure this time the capitalists won't just start killing you when you become an inconvenience like they have every other time in the last hundred years.

to represent the working class

Lol. The working class loves white phosphorous apparently

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[+] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world -8 points 3 months ago* (4 children)

Are you unaware that DSA also organizes mutual aid and labor?

And DSA is not beholden to any one person, it's built by hundreds of thousands of working class organizers

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[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

That's cool, call me when they stop backing openly imperialist candidates and maybe then we can all leave the razor wire-lined cul de sac of capitalist reform. I don't know if you've taken a look at the entire planet lately, but we are decidedly out of time for that bullshit.

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[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

Who's imperialist that the DSA support?

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[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 child)

Dude a significant number of them were going hard for a blackwater mercenary with an SS tattoo on his chest. What liberation movements do they support?

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[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago*

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