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[–] 235 points 3 months ago (41 children)

the consensus seems to be that adding instructions to code that sabotage other people’s work goes too far

Luckily, the LLM coding isnt people's work

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  • [–] 118 points 3 months ago (23 children)

    the consensus seems to be that adding instructions to code that sabotage other people’s work goes too far

    I mean, my thought would be "Don't fucking run code that you don't understand".

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  • [–] 44 points 3 months ago (21 children)

    If we all followed that rule, we'd be using nothing more complex than an 8080.

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  • [–] 19 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    True, but I would think developers should at least be following it with the code they're actually working on.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    It's an imported library, since when are devs expected to be inspecting the source code of every library they import?

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago

    The code YOU run. If your code runs other code, that doesn't fall under this.

    "Don't ride a car unless you know how driving a car works" doesn't mean you need to understand the chemical composition of the metal in the motor parts

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago (13 children)

    Well, I think it's legit to use software without understanding the code or use hardware without understanding the specifics of the logical mechanisms of the silicon. But when you're writing software, you really should know what's in your own code. Anything else is bad form in my opinion.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago (12 children)

    It's an imported library, since when are devs expected to be inspecting the source code of every library they import?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (11 children)

    I don't like to use libraries I don't understand. Probably part why I'm not a professional developer, but it's the principle of the thing - don't put out code you can't vouch for.

    I mean, yes, it's way easier to just use the library, trust it works; but by that logic, it's also way easier to just let an llm code for you.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Probably part why I'm not a professional developer, but it's the principle of the thing

    There's no 'principle' here, that's something that simply would not be possible in any sort of large project. To suggest all professional software developers read every line of every library before using it is ridiculously unworkable.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    ...but do yoz "understand libraries" by reading every line of their code, or by reading the documentation? And only in the parts you're actually interested in?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Yeah, a general understanding is enough. But I think yeah, actually skim over the code, at least get a basic idea about how the internal methods work. Depending on what you're using the library for, it could be prudent to know more about how data structures are handled.

    Honestly, you'll probably learn something in the process.

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  • [+] -2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago* (3 children)

    Yes it can, its literally still code.

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  • [+] 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 41 points 3 months ago (12 children)

    It's the stolen work of other people.

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  • [+] -6 points 3 months ago (11 children)

    Like all of human knowledge, I swear you antillm people are out of your mind.

    Here we have a way to bring coding and creation to the masses at a much lower bar and most of the LLM projects I see are MIT licensed, it's literally a revolution for open source but half of you are pearl clutching and acting like god damn Microsoft.

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  • [+] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (10 children)
  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    Self host an open model, but yeah 20 a month is not that expensive for what you can do with it.

    But that's not what anyone in this thread is saying, they're saying LLM code bad and stealing so let's poison open source projects. Also sharing code is bad now, when I'm sure many of these people would claim they like open source code.

    Again, I think knowledge and code should be free for all to use so that we all benefit from it.

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  • [+] 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (6 children)
  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago* (5 children)

    You don't have to delegate thinking, I'm sure many people will but it's absolutely not a requirement for using LLMs as the intended tool they are.

    On the topic of price, I'm sure people were saying the same things about books (oh must be nice you can afford books), then the same about computers and the internet. They eventually became more affordable.

    Not even going to touch the "I couldn't understand economic heardship" aspect.

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  • [+] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    I'm just showing that as technology progresses and scales it generally becomes cheaper and peoples access increases, again were literally on the internet now and have phones in our pockets that can do it, whereas 40 years ago PCs were much more expensive and internet was slow as hell.

    We shouldn't trust big tech, I'm on Lemmy so that should be a bit of a given lol.

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  • [+] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (2 children)
  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I think the reality is open source and normal people are who continuously push progress forward, how much of the internet scaffolding is literally on the backs of open source projects?

    A shit load.

    LLMs are no different, and I can't agree with you that open source models are not a threat to the big players.

    I'm not sure why you're downplaying what I'm saying about extending access and lowering prices, yes of course corporations don't do it out of the goodness of their capitalist hearts, but history shows that it does in fact reduce in cost over time, which was your initial point. "Oh must be nice for you that you can afford $20 a month and have your own homelab to self host models."

    I grew up lower middle class, my home was repossesed by the bank during the housing crisis and my parents divorced.

    I moved out at 18 and joined the workforce and have managed to get a middle-class wage via my efforts and a bit of luck. I hate my job and the morons in charge but the job market is shit.

    I love open source software and the ideas beyond knowledge and work should be shared with others so we can all benefit (which is unfortunately not how this capitalist system works) and yet we have Linux, we have an amazing amount of open source projects that people do simply because they want to. Those are the people we should support and the ones who freely train and fine tune open source models.

    To your point about "software doesn't become faster with time" mother fucker I remember windows 95, you're delusional if you don't think we've come an insane amount. I remember webpages taking minutes to load, interlacing vs non to help with image loading.

    In the realm of LLMs, the software itself on the open source side has improved leaps and bounds in just the past 6 months on my same hardware.

    I understand your negativity, it's hard not to fall into it when the world is how it is right now and things feel like (and are) getting worse in most ways.

    Phones require specialized hardware and designing, to run and produce, LLMs only require normal consumer grade hardware and the desire to learn how to make it work. Will it ever be mainstream? Based on Linux vs Windows/Mac, probably not, but that doesn't mean it's pointless or impossible.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    "self host an open model". My dude, you need pretty beefy hardware to run a slow and shit model that won't even compare to the 0.33x models you get with a copilot subscription.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I think that's the problem though, isn't it. It is other people's work, condensed down into what could semi-accurately be called a statistics based random word generator. If LLMs were good at it or had people checking behind then that were good we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

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