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[–] 25 points 3 years ago (2 children)

Everything you said was accurate except the pro Russia = tankie stuff. I just want to be able to say that the kulaks deserved and such without being tied to capitalist trash like Putin...

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  • [+] 18 points 3 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    I've actually yet to see anybody you'd call a tankie being pro Putin or pro current Russian government. What people are pro is Russia acting as a counter to NATO and facilitating multipolarity.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    I think people are thrown off by anti NATO stance. I almost don't blame people for confusing NATO opposition for Russia support, especially during on ongoing Russian invasion, which does seem to justify NATO's existence. Nevermind NATO's history of imperialist action, people are very tied up in the Ukraine war and are unwilling to cede any ground to anything that may appear even a little soft on Russia.

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  • [+] 5 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago

    I don't even really think it's that they don't see that point, it's that they don't want the US intervening in any more conflicts because the US always picks that side that's closest aligned with their own capitalist/imperial goals, and the struggle for worker solidarity is the dominant dialectical struggle they're interested in. If the US showed any interest in assisting a socialist project be successful, they might feel more comfortable with the US's involvement, but that's historically not been the case (nor would that make sense in that particular dialectical materialist worldview).

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  • [–] 5 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    Right, people are treating it as sports where you have to either cheer for one side or the other.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago (4 children)

    My issue with hexbearians was that in every single thread I saw them in they would do nothing but whatabout regardless of the context. I understand they may have good points about certain things and to their credit some had very well written and informative comments but most of the time they weren't directly relevant to the topic. It could be a loud minority but it doesn't change the fact it's annoying to see huge threads of whatabout arguments all the time by them.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago

    In my view, having consistent moral standards is a prerequisite for having an honest discussion on any topic. If anything, the actual whataboutism is pointing fingers at other countries while refusing to acknowledge what your own country is doing. People should focus on fixing problems at home and holding their own governments accountable first and foremost because that's where they have most agency.

    This is what people who you accuse of whataboutism point out. Focusing on countries you don't like and talking about how bad they are when your own country does the same things simply serves to deflect attention and to create the impression that your own society is somehow better and more enlightened. This is how the west often justifies the atrocities it commits.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    You know whataboutism isn't an actual logical fallacy and was originally used in defense of British colonialism "well the IRA also does bad things" right?

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  • [–] -5 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Again, my point was that people should focus on themselves and what their countries are doing. Your "well the IRA also does bad things" is precisely the kind of deflection I'm arguing against.

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  • [+] 3 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

    Last I checked, what actually happened was that Ukraine was plunged into a civil war after US ran a coup in 2104 that overthrew the democratically elected government.

    Russia was invited into the conflict by LPR and DPR which it recognized independence of. This follows the precedent NATO set in Yugoslavia where it recognized breakaway regions and intervened on their behalf.

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  • [+] 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)
  • [–] -1 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    I don't need to edit anything, the LPR and DPR were every bit as legitimate as the regions that broke away from Yugoslavia. What exactly are you claiming is the difference between the two scenarios?

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  • [+] 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)
  • [+] -6 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Ukraine was formed by USSR. Are you just utterly historically illiterate?

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  • [+] 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)
  • [+] -6 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    The discussion is about LPR and DPR regions not some abstract notion of Ukraine.

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  • [+] 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)
  • [+] -6 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    You're just engaging in sophistry here. LPR and DPR are two well defined regions of the current state known as Ukraine. This is exactly the same situation as Yugoslavia. Every argument you've made equally applies to regions of Yugoslavia that separated. Russia just followed NATO precedent intervening on the behalf of the regions whose independence was recognized by Russia. You can keep doing mental gymnastics here all you like, but that's the reality of the situation.

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  • [+] 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)
  • [+] -6 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    What are you even talking about here, you're saying there is no history of the people who were part of Yugoslavia?

    The only one uncritically accepting imperialist propaganda here is you buddy. You're the one who is supporting literal self described fascist. Maybe do some self reflection on that.

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  • [+] 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)
  • [–] -5 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    You're just showing complete and utter ignorance of Slavic history here. However, even in your ramblings you admit that people currently living in LRP and DPR (which you evidently can't spell even), are predominantly of Russian ethnicity and hence want to be part of Russia.

    Im not supporting any fascists but you are backing Putin who has an undeniable history of imperialism and fascism.

    You very clearly support a fascist regime that took power in a violent coup in Ukraine in 2014. Here's western media reporting on your friends

    and here's what they've been up to since 2014 as even CNN reported at the time

    You're a fash simp plain and simple.

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  • [+] 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)
  • [–] -5 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    you openly ally with literal fascists, I have nothing more to say to you

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  • [+] 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)
  • [+] -6 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    No, Ukraine was invaded because of NATO expansion. In fact, Stoltenberg has now publicly acknowledged that Putin made clear to NATO in a draft treaty before the war that it could avert it if NATO agreed not to keep enlarging. But NATO rejected the offer.

    Then lastly on Sweden. First of all, it is historic that now Finland is member of the Alliance. And we have to remember the background. The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.

    The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.

    So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.

    https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm#:~:text=The%20background%20was%20that%20President,condition%20for%20not%20invade%20Ukraine

    So maybe stop lying and stop supporting the fascist regime in Ukraine that your government installed there in a violent coup.

    These are the people you are allied with, and if that doesn't give you a pause then what else is there to say about you as a person https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TojapQRUhzs

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  • [+] 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)
  • [–] -3 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Repeating nonsense over and over isn't going to make it true baby Goebbels.

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  • [+] 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)
  • [–] -3 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    You're literally the one who is supporting actual overt fascists here. I love how you still haven't even acknowledged this fact. You are utterly morally bankrupt. Maybe go do a bit of self reflection on the fact that your views perfectly align with people who tattoo themselves in swastikas.

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  • [+] 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)
  • [–] -4 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Last I checked the wagner group isn't part of the Russian government, but keep on lying since that's all you've been doing here this whole time. Show me a single actual Russian government official who claims to be a fascist. Meanwhile, entire Ukrainian political elite are openly fascist as well as all your nazi friends in US who support them. I've provided you with plenty of sources clearly showing this to be the case. Ukraine doesn't have some fascists, it's run by a fascist regime, and the fact that you won't even acknowledge this says everything I need to know about you as a person. Zelensky being Jewish doesn't mean anything. Next, thing you'll tell me Israel isn't a fascist apartheid state because it's run by Jews. You are so lost.

    You are allied with literal self described fascists and you openly champion their cause.

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  • [+] 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)
  • [–] -3 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    They're a PMC, and fascism isn't the ideology of the PMC. Meanwhile, official battalions like azov are openly fascist, and fascists are part of the actual government in Ukraine. The fact that you keep trying to equate the two shows that you're an utterly morally bankrupt liar.

    Also, nowhere does Putin advocate for fascism. Stop lying. I know what fascism is, but either you don't or you just lie. And I'm done talking to you nazi. Bye.

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