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[–] 329 points 3 months ago (6 children)

AI is an amazing tool for fascists.

Annihilate private access to computing, censor and rewrite all comms, destroy free software and the last remnants of education...

Every single decision made for evil.

And all these vendors who are locking themselves into one customer are about to learn why that's a bad idea.

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  • [–] 78 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    The worst thing is that when used for good AI is fantastic! Scientific progress with purpose built AI to find planets, predict the weather, and tons of pattern matching has been in use for decades with positive benefits!

    Even LLMs can be a useful tool in the right situations where looking like words people would say but accuracy is NOT important.

    The problem is trying to use LLMs to do everything and failing while running the tech industry, the environment, and soon the economy into the ground. They took something positive, ruined it and coopted the terminology while shoving it down everyone's throats.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago*

    AI is used as propaganda tools to spread it, and it can bee seen on youtube, social media quite readily. plus it sexualizes victims to like csam, and festishized unattainable "women" for conservatives.

    conservaties pretty much buys into/believes in anything that is scammy.

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  • [–] -5 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    I'm not here to argue for or against LLMs in general, but self-hostable AI is a thing. Actually open AI is a thing.

    A blanket statement saying about AI as a whole technology being good for fascism is about as useful as saying "roads are good for fascism" (they're great for troop movement after all).

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  • [–] 109 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    You can't self host anything when the hardware is no longer affordable.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Self hosting an llm ain't the same thing as self hosting nextcloud for your docs and calendar. Yes there are small models but their output is laughable

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  • [–] 28 points 3 months ago* (4 children)

    Small models are improving and becoming more capable. The quality of local LLMs is basically unbounded. The context size of local LLMs is bounded by hardware. So local LLMs can be very capable for small, self-contained tasks.

    qwen 3.6 35b running locally:

    Write a Python script that can pull weather data from public sources and provide the high and low temperature for the current day in Miami, FL.
    

    Single shot. No tool/internet use, so it didn't pull this script from elsewhere.

    import requests
    
    def get_miami_weather():
        # Miami, FL coordinates
        LATITUDE = 25.7617
        LONGITUDE = -80.1918
    
        # Open-Meteo API URL (free, no API key required)
        url = (
            f"https://api.open-meteo.com/v1/forecast?"
            f"latitude={LATITUDE}&longitude={LONGITUDE}"
            f"&daily=temperature_2m_max,temperature_2m_min"
            f"&timezone=auto"
        )
    
        try:
            response = requests.get(url, timeout=10)
            response.raise_for_status()  # Raises error for 4xx/5xx HTTP status codes
            data = response.json()
    
            # Index 0 corresponds to the current day
            high_c = data["daily"]["temperature_2m_max"][0]
            low_c = data["daily"]["temperature_2m_min"][0]
    
            # Convert to Fahrenheit (commonly used in the US)
            high_f = (high_c * 9/5) + 32
            low_f = (low_c * 9/5) + 32
    
            print("🌤️  Miami, FL Weather for Today:")
            print(f"High: {high_f:.1f}°F ({high_c:.1f}°C)")
            print(f"Low:  {low_f:.1f}°F ({low_c:.1f}°C)")
    
        except requests.exceptions.HTTPError as http_err:
            print(f"❌ HTTP error occurred: {http_err}")
        except requests.exceptions.ConnectionError:
            print("❌ Error: Could not connect to the weather API.")
        except requests.exceptions.Timeout:
            print("❌ Error: Request timed out.")
        except requests.exceptions.RequestException as err:
            print(f"❌ An error occurred: {err}")
        except KeyError as key_err:
            print(f"❌ Error parsing data: Missing expected key {key_err}")
        except Exception as err:
            print(f"❌ Unexpected error: {err}")
    
    if __name__ == "__main__":
        get_miami_weather()
    

    Output:

    % python3 ./m_weather.py
    🌤️  Miami, FL Weather for Today:
    High: 88.0°F (31.1°C)
    Low:  73.2°F (22.9°C)
    

    I tried to keep the size and scope within something that would reasonably fit in a comment. Looks pretty decent to me, but I can't write Python myself. Never learned. I double-checked the LAT & LON of Miami, and it's spot on.

    It did take 47 seconds, while a cloud LLM would probably take 5 or less.

    All I'm saying is local LLM isn't garbage and it is getting better all the time.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    That's interesting.

    How much ram did it use while running?

    If you used a GPU, how much does it cost in today's prices?

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

    It's a MacBook Pro. 36GB of ram. I am sure Macs have some kind of gpu and I understand it somehow combines GPU ram with system ram, but I don't really know Mac hardware very well.

    It's beefy for a laptop, but the desktop I built for myself several years ago had 32 GB of ram and a GTX 1660, so I'm guessing they are similar in capability. I gave that to my daughter, so I can't run a comparison right now.

    EDIT: After doing just a bit of research, I've learned the unified memory architecture that Macs use, while not ideal for many purposes, is actually a big advantage for running larger inference models. So it's possible that this particular model wouldn't run at all on my Linux box or would run much slower because the full model wouldn't fit in the 6GB of VRAM and create a lot of memory thrashing.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    You can use something like KoboldCPP on Linux, which allows both RAM and VRAM combined to run a model. O'course, not as fast when compared to pure VRAM or the Mac approach, but it is an option. I use my 128gb RAM with some GPUs for running models.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    Ollama and llama.cpp allow it too but it's super slow in my experience.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    Speed depends on how much of the model is on VRAM, and the dense/MoE architecture of that model. The RAM's benefit is more about having the ability to run the model in the first place. In any case, a dense Qwen3.6 27b would take up about 27-33gb-ish of memory, plus whatever context size you set.

    Upcoming implementation of MTP will increase the size of models, but in exchange, they will also run faster. About a 30%ish boost for dense models, a bit less for Mixture of Expert varieties, from the looks of it.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    When I've tried running a ~14 gigabyte distillation of whatever model it is I was trying to run, it would come out super slow at I believe 50/50 GPU to CPU. It gets so slow it was just more bearable to run a 7 or 8 b model that would actually fit entirely in VRAM and run entirely on GPU. Also made the rest of computer usage more bearable.

    To be fair I do only have a 6 core 6 thread CPU though. It shot up to 600% usage so even the DDR4 memory wasn't really bottlenecking it. I suspect a 9950X would fare a lot better.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    I am using a 5950x, with 128gb of DDR4 3600 memory. The GPUs are a 3060 and 4090, totaling 36gb of VRAM. IMO, being bottlenecked by the CPU is definitely a thing, it just comes third after the VRAM and RAM considerations.

    With a 35b+3a MoE at Q8 with KV8, I get...

    [11:54:32] CtxLimit:18858/262144, Init:0.18s, Processed:17294 in 7.66s (2259.18T/s), Generated:1564/32768 in 29.01s (53.91T/s), Total:36.85s

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    Yup, you want memory accessible to the GPU for local AI. AMD Strix Point and Mac devices are popular options. CPU can run LLMs but very slowly. I've got 32 GB of RAM and 8 VRAM and it's borderline useless for models that don't fit in the VRAM.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago* (1 child)

    qwen 3.6 is awesome, but 48-64gb is still real money these days. (though 32gb on dedicated separate machine is also more money). Sonnet 3.5 to opus 4.5 level benchmarks. and the online cost metrics for 27b and 35b are way off considering the overall usefulness of a 48-64gb machine (inclusive of gpu vram for 35b) which even in single, non batching, use could displace $5-$7/day of use.

    Local costs are much lower than online costs in linked chart, but if online, there are better models

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  • [+] -9 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    You see hot that's tangential to what you're replying to?

    Ai is evil

    LOCAL AI is not all evil

    Computers are expensive

    Your point is completely valid, but in another discussion.

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  • [–] 30 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    Sorry, but I think the point about local AI not necessarily being evil is the tangent here.

    The OP is about motherboard shortages, which is being driven by the big AI companies and is making hardware unaffordable for normal users

    The top level reply to that is about how that's bad because it removes the ability for people to be in control of their own computing

    Then someone comes in, saying "yeah, but you can host your own AI so that it's not evil so not all AI is bad"

    Then someone points out that you can only host your AI if you can afford the hardware to do so which, as the OP and the comment you replied to pointed out, is getting really hard to do.

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  • [–] 42 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    if you did not understand the comment from above it's fine but splitting hairs like you are doing is silly (everybody knows it's not 100 % of AI is 100% evil)...

    your comment is exactly the same as when people say "guns don't kill people, people kill people"... yes, we all know guns are not autonomously killing people, the point is that guns, as a tool, are remarkably good at doing something we do not want, which is to kill people

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Not to go on a separate tangent, but that's the entire point of guns. They are supposed to kill. That's not meant to be some crazy conservative defense of them or opposition to regulating them. Just pointing out something that seems to get lost in conversations.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    Correct... so when I tell you "guns DON'T kill people, people kill people" you are right to assume and I am just an idiot trying to jingle keys in front of you to distract you from the fact that guns do in fact kill people.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    I've looked into self-hosted AI and decided it's not worth the cost - both in terms of hardware and energy - when compared to the relative value to be gotten out of it. YMMV.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    Same, pretty much. It is possible though, which makes LLMs a more democratic technology than, say, nuclear reactors.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    The models you can run on consumer hardware are still nowhere near the stuff that runs in corporate data centers. To stick with your metaphor, its like running a little steam engine at home while the big guys get to operate nuclear reactors...

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  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago

    You can get pretty far with a stack of 5090s and llama.cpp with split mode graph (or so I've heard, I've never tried), or AMD's unified memory CPU thing.

    It's not as good as data centre grade stuff, but it's not nothing either.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    The US government is already setting down the legal framework to make self hostable AI ilegal so good luck with that. Also self hostable AI is still being trained on stolen material so still fascist.

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