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Should I teach students who doesn't know computer science C or JavaScript first? (programming.dev)
submitted 5 months ago by to c/programming@programming.dev
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Hello,

I am thinking about teaching my students JavaScript first so that they can start creating websites and make their career, what are your thoughts?

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[–] 2 points 5 months ago* (13 children)

I would say C first. You need to learn the fundamentals:

  • pointers
  • allocation
  • reference vs value
  • recursion
  • stack
  • panics, errors, error propagation
  • data structures

Many devs don't know it and they are honestly just clueless about anything they are doing. They just want to make it work.

JavaScript is just too high level, and makes you think you are immune to these low level concepts, but you are not.

And not only that, but also good practices, like:

  • git
  • linting
  • types of tests and how to implement them
  • working with third party dependencies
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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    I wouldn't say that pointers and memory allocation is a good thing to start with. I teach programming to students with no prior experience, and sometimes it's hard to even get them to grasp basic programming in Python. At least in the beginning. You have to start slow.

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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago (10 children)

    I've been working as a software engineer for years and not once have those "fundamentals" been relevant to the work I do.

    If I question their usefulness then I don't think it'll sit well with no experience at all.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (9 children)

    If you've been working as a software engineer for years and things like error handling and data structures (let alone git and testing!) are not relevant to you, I fear for your employer's codebase.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (8 children)

    Hah! You picked the two of your that list that I actually do care about.

    • pointers * allocation * reference vs value * recursion * stack * panics, errors, error propagation * data structures

    I don't know what pointers are. I don't care about memory allocation. Recursion rarely comes up.
    That's not the kind of codebase I work with. I guess I'm not a proper big-boy programmer 😢

    Anyway, your snide remarks about my abilities aside, that doesn't address my point at all.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (7 children)

    First of all, it's not my list. Check the usernames of the comments you're replying to.

    Second, you didn't make any sort of distinction limiting which ones you were talking about before, which means that you expressed that none of them were relevant. You don't get to move the goalposts and then pretend it doesn't address your point because of that.

    Third, that sloppiness and failure to pay attention is only reinforcing my initial impression.

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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago* (6 children)

    Calling me out on a clarification when you're banging on with ad hominem rubbish?

    Respond to the point or bugger off. I'm not here to impress you, you're not my dad.

    Third, that sloppiness and failure to pay attention is only reinforcing my initial impression.

    A good engineer knows when the details matter and when it's just wasting everyone's time. Would you classify responding to someone being needlessly hostile as something other than a waste of time?

    If anything you should be criticising me for choosing to spaff more time on this conversation.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (5 children)

    You weren't "clarifying;" you were backtracking and lying about it. That's a detail that matters.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Respond to the point or bugger off.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (3 children)

    I did respond to the point, in my initial comment. Your lack of reading comprehension (and dishonesty!) is your own problem, not mine.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Your continuing inability to engage in an even remotely constructive way is really tragic.

    Instead of seeing my response as "He takes my point and sees that his initial comment was too broad. We could have a conversation" it just ends up as an opportunity for you to make this community more hostile. That's so sad.

    Hopefully you're just having a bad day.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, we could have had a nice conversation, if you had ended your initial reply to me a sentence earlier. But you didn't, did you? No, instead, you tried to turn your failure to say what you meant around on me as if it were my fault, in an attempt to save face at my expense. Did you really think you weren't going to get called out on it?

    There is only one person "failing to engage in an even remotely constructive way," and that's you, not me.

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