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Could online age verification be done in a way that protects privacy and autonomy? (lemmy.world)
submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by to c/ask_experienced_devs@programming.dev
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Apologies if this isn't the right place to ask this, but I thought actual developers with a deep understanding of how technology actually works would be the people to ask!

If you were tasked with setting up a safe and secure way to do this, how would you do it differently than what the UK government is proposing? How could it be done such that I wouldn't have to worry about my privacy and the threat of government suppression? Is it even theoretically possible to accomplish such a task at such a scale?

Cheers!

EDIT: Just to be clear: I'm not in favour of age verification laws. But they're on their way regardless. My question is purely about the implementation and technology of the thing, rather than the ethics or efficacy of it. Can this seemingly-inevitable privacy hellscape be done in a non-hellscapish way?

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[–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

If you believe parents are the only people who can help…then I’m glad you’re not in charge because that would doom us. As I said above…most parents aren’t savvy enough or don’t have the time. If parents could be the solution…it would have been solved already.

Yes, I get it…you’re saying that the groomers are the people collecting that data. Simply not true, like it or lump it those terrible laws will help…even if they’re a terrible invasion of privacy and don’t go far enough in some respects. I’m sorry, I can’t engage with somebody so wildly out of touch any more. I’m a front line worker in at risk children…and poor and at risk children…the children who are majority of children groomed…would be left out in the cold by your simplistic approach.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    If you believe parents are the only people who can help

    Parents (and persons serving in loco parentis: guardians, caregivers, etc.) are the only ones who can responsibly impose on the privacy rights of a child. The government needs a warrant to do the same. Society in general includes the pornographers and groomers and others who would do harm to the child, and cannot be broadly trusted with such a responsibility. Any solution for a particular child has to pass through the parents/guardians of that child. The parents/guardians must be the ones implementing it, and they should only be allowed to implement it for their own children/wards. You indicate later that you work with at-risk kids; you might be considered a "guardian" of those kids, and you would be charged with providing this role to your kids. But not to society in general.

    Yes, I get it…you’re saying that the groomers are the people collecting that data. Simply not true,

    You have yet to read or fully comprehend the California law (in particular) if you're making that claim. Go back and read it. When you do, remember that groomers will be making "applications". Some of the developers receiving "age signals" from childrens' operating systems will be groomers. Re-read the law again, but this time substitute "groomer developer" for "developer", and "groomer application" for "application". This law explicitly requires groomer-developers to collect this data.

    poor and at risk children…the children who are majority of children groomed

    Violating everyone's privacy is not a replacement for properly supervising children. The poor and at risk kids you're talking about shouldn't exist: Their needs should be properly met, so that nobody is "at risk". Age verification doesn't do anything to help at-risk kids. It does make it easier for groomers to identify them as at-risk kids.

    Australia adopted age restrictions on social media. They found that the net effect of their ban was to isolate at-risk kids from support. Kids felt compelled to hide their internet activities from adults and authorities. The act of reporting abuse also served to incriminate the kid for bypassing the bans, so kids tend to conceal both. Their ban is introducing greater harm.

    You're not helping kids by supporting these laws. You're putting them at greater risk. As a "front line worker in at risk children", you really should know better.

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