Technology

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[–] ThirdConsul@lemmy.ml 1 point 1 year ago* (3 children)

That is an interesting point of view. Very USA exceptional. It's also dumbed down a lot. ARPANET is a computer network, but it's not internet, nor it was the first. It kickstarted popularity of computer networks in the USA and provided first FTP and (I think) first remote login.

Popularity of computer networks in USA definitely was a formative quality over the 20 years of international development of the Internet.

But saying ARPANET was the internet is like saying gramophone is Netflix.

First computer network to send packets to another computer was British NPL network. Then US government founded ARPANET, built upon that. Except that DARPA besides having own researchers outsourced to Stanford, BBN and University College of London ("How the Internet Came to Be", quoting I forgot whom from DARPA).

Then French Cyclades computer network built upon ARPANET and proposed that multiple networks should be able to communicate with each other.

Then USA non-profit IEEE looked at all that proposed TCP/IP for cross-network communication, and that is the thing that (after many iterations over a decade) led to the Internet not being separate networks like AOL or Computerverse or whatever.

Now we're getting closer to the internet and it's time for https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_data_network

First was Spain with RETD , then France, then USA with Telenet. Then Canada. Then in 1978 we started connecting those separate networks. I think the first properly working project was https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Packet_Switched_Service between British post office and USA post office.

On those public data networks the Internet's physical layer was built.

In USA U.S. National Science Foundation was founding more and more computer networks, including CSNET. That's still not internet. It's 1980 and it will take a decade of new inventions (Ethernet, LAN, DNS) and improvements & implementations (like to TCP/IP) before we will get the internet.

Here's a nifty source for that decade, because I spent 50 minutes writing this post before I noticed I'm arguing with a guy over the internet about the internet.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet (there is a nice timeline list there).

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[–] btaf45@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

First computer network to send packets to another computer was British NPL network.

TCP/IP is not "the Internet".

ARPANET is a computer network, but it’s not internet, nor it was the first.

The Arpanet IS the Internet. THE ARPANET IS THE NETWORK THAT WAS LATER RENAMED "INTERNET". Did you really think that the internet just blinked into existence with millions of nodes? LMFAO. No, it had to start small and get big, as common sense dictates. UCLA, ARC, UCSB, and the University of Utah School of Computing are literally the very first 4 nodes of the internet. We know exactly how, where, and when the internet started because we know what the very first 4 internet nodes are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET

[The first four nodes were designated as a testbed for developing and debugging the 1822 protocol, which was a major undertaking. While they were connected electronically in 1969, network applications were not possible until the Network Control Protocol was implemented in 1970 enabling the first two host-host protocols, remote login (Telnet) and file transfer (FTP) which were specified and implemented between 1969 and 1973.[10][11][65] The network was declared operational in 1971. Network traffic began to grow once email was established at the majority of sites by around 1973.[12] Initial four hosts First ARPANET IMP log: the first message ever sent via the ARPANET, 10:30 pm PST on 29 October 1969 (6:30 UTC on 30 October 1969). This IMP Log excerpt, kept at UCLA, describes setting up a message transmission from the UCLA SDS Sigma 7 Host computer to the SRI SDS 940 Host computer The initial ARPANET configuration linked UCLA, ARC, UCSB, and the University of Utah School of Computing. The first node was created at UCLA...]

But saying ARPANET was the internet is like saying gramophone is Netflix.

Would you stop with the nonsense? Gramophones were never renamed "netflix". LOL........

That’s still not internet. It’s 1980

Would you again stop with the nonsense? Everyone with common sense knows that the internet did not just blink into existence with a million domains. Obviously it had to start small and grow from there. The internet was created in 1969, not 1980. The very first internet connection occurred on 30 October 1969. The first 4 internet nodes were: UCLA, ARC, UCSB, and the University of Utah. Just because the internet originally had a different name does not change in the slightest exactly when, how, and where it began.

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[–] ThirdConsul@lemmy.ml 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

The very first internet connection occurred on 30 October 1969

No. Earliest cross node connection was early 1969: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPL_network

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237130669_How_the_Internet_came_to_be

This is the book be Vincent Cerf where he explains that ARPANET isn't the Internet. Good to know that the people who created the Internet are wrong.

I get it. You were taught in school that US government created the internet. It's a good explanation to the 4th grader. It's also simplistic and incorrect, but that's how elementary schools teach. It's like that with a lot of knowledge, it becomes more nuanced the more you know about it.

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[–] btaf45@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237130669_How_the_Internet_came_to_be

Your own link proves my case. No where in your link does Cerf say that the Arpanet was not the beginning of the internet. If fact, he indicates the opposite of that.

[While still at DARPA, I formed an Internet Configuration Control Board...]

You would only have a leg to stand on if there was a moment in history when 2 or more similar sized networks combined to form the internet. But that is not what happened. What happened is that the Arpanet formed in 1969 with 4 nodes, and over the next 56 years grew bigger and bigger and bigger until there were billions of nodes. And it did that mostly by adding individual nodes. When it got too big for DARPA to manage it all, the name was changed from Arpanet to Internet.

I get it. You were taught in school that US government created the internet.

No, when I first started using the internet in 1982 when the internet had hundreds of nodes, I learned how this network was created by using FTP to get the papers that described it. But I get it. You watched a youtube video that covered the entire 56 year history of the internet and you got confused about the difference between the creation of the internet and the entire history of the internet.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPL_network

[The NPL network, or NPL Data Communications Network, was a local area computer network]

Why did you even post this link? Your link literally refers to a "LOCAL area network". The Arpanet/internet is a global network, not a local network. Your own links keep proving my points.

What we are discussing is the BEGINNING and CREATION of the internet, not the entire 56 year history of the internet. The internet did not start as a gigantic network with millions or billions of nodes. It started with 4 specific nodes in 1969 and then grew from there, and we both know that. The beginning was crucial because if there had never been a beginning in 1969 funded by the US DOD called Arpanet, there never would have been an Internet. There would have been no early network for later nodes to join. It's possible that a large network would have eventually developed, but it likely would have happened by merging together private networks like AOL and MSN and Compuserve. And it would have been much more top down controlled and much more expensive and much less useful.