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[–] petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

where people attribute problems to the people of a nation rather than its leaders.

But you're the one doing this. I'm not conflating people with country here. OP isn't either.

Yet we get hate crimes against the people that come from a region just because their government did something stupid.

Are you proposing that racists, when they hear "Russian government" instead of "Russia," will stop being racist? I don't really know what to say to that.

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[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 year ago* (2 children)

When racists hear "Russians do X," yes, they'll attribute that to many ethnic Russians outside of Russia.

Look at the Japanese internment during WW2, tons of people were accused of being spys and interned simply because of their ethnicity, even if they had lived here for decades (or were even born here). Japanese people got mistreated for years after WW2 just because they were Japanese, without any association w/ the Japanese government. Why? Because propaganda associated the terrible actions of the Japanese government with the Japanese people and turned US citizens on each other.

So yes, I will push back on anything that even smells like that kind of BS. I will not tolerate generalizations like this, even if most "normal" people understand what it means. People already associate Jewish people in the US w/ Israel, even though many (most?) actually don't like the Israeli state. So no, I will not sit back and allow casual intolerance to go unquestioned.

Yes, it's not the point of the article, but I saw similar wording several times in comments on this post, hence my comment here (it seemed the most relevant subthread to drop it into).

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[–] petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

"Russians do X,"

*Russia.

You keep making this mistake. I'm starting to think you're doing it deliberately.

Because propaganda associated the terrible actions of the Japanese government with the Japanese people

Are you not reinforcing the idea that a country's name refers to its people by insisting that everyone else and not you are the ones nefariously conflating the two?

The idea that a people are the same as their country is nationalism. How are you battling nationalism by preventing people from saying a country's name?

If you said "Netanyahu did this," and fair, he does a lot of things, would the racist not assume that the Isreali people elected him and thus agree with him anyway? Because they're "of the same kind."

You seem to think that their racism is derived from a simple misconception and not, like, a deep-seated fear and paranoia.

If you see someone say "Isreal does this," then assume they mean the state. If you see someone say "let's bomb Isreal into the shadow realm," then politely snap their neck. It's not that hard.

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[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 year ago

You keep making this mistake. I’m starting to think you’re doing it deliberately.

It's not a mistake, I see that type of language a lot. If the language was specifically "Russia does X", then it's not a problem, because it's referring to the government.

The idea that a people are the same as their country is nationalism. How are you battling nationalism by preventing people from saying a country’s name?

Nationalism sucks, and I'm trying to distinguish between the country doing a thing (i.e. its leadership) and the people doing a thing. The people in the US elected Trump, but the people in the US aren't doing what Trump did, so it's absolutely fallacious to say something like "Americans are deporting people," when that's being done by the administration, not everyday people.

That's it.

would the racist not assume that the Isreali people elected him and thus agree with him anyway?

Sure, maybe. But a lot more people would get riled up if we said "Israelis did this," and then associate that with random Jewish people (most of whom have probably never been to Israel). Netanyahu/Israel doing a thing is quite different from Israelis doing a thing, because the latter has a lot more risk of lumping in non-Israelis into that nonsense.

Racism is certainly deeper than a headline/misconception, my point is that it can be stoked by loose language. Its that loose language that I'd like people to be more careful about.