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A postal worker in Harlem attacked a trans woman. She fought back and fatally stabbed him in self-defense. This is how the NY Post framed it. (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by to c/aboringdystopia@lemmy.world
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Note that I'm not necessarily opposed to her facing consequences for killing him -- my issue is with how gleefully NYPost is framing it as if she just attacked him out of the blue and shoehorning her into the "evil transgenders" stereotype

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[–] 15 points 1 year ago (5 children)

What people are trying to say, and that is clearly going way over your head, is that this was NOT self defense.

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  • [+] -12 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    No need to be a dick. I get that you're frustrated, and that's okay. Being a dick, though, that's on you.

    But my point of being facetious is to point out the dishonesty or heavy bias in framing it as murder, when the discussion really is all about whether or not it was self defense.

    People are loudly saying how punishment should be, or taking things out of context or loading the presentation emotionally with other circumstances. All of which are intellectually dishonest and jumping the gun. Everyone's welcome to their opinions, but we all need to try to focus more on constructive discussion, rather than infighting over a news story because nobody can stay on the actual topic, resulting in everybody being frustrated and arguing about different things.

    The subject is, "self defense or not?"

    Obviously, you and I differ on our opinions, but we have also neither gone over all the evidence nor even discussed what evidence or suspicions we have. So saying your equally uniformed opinion is going over my head is not just rude and self centered, but it's also... Potentially just wrong.

    So in the theme of olive branches and keeping it mature and civil:

    I say it could have been self defense because she was being beaten by a guy bigger than her who was throwing out hate speech.

    You say it was not self defense because...?

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  • [+] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    You're right she was taller..

    But after reading many articles, it still sounds like self defense to me. It sounds like two people got into a petty altercation, and hate speech amplified emotions greatly. I don't know if you know, but trans women are VERY often victims of abuse and murder simply for being trans.

    And going off the guy's hate speech AND throwing the first punches, and that she gave him a final warning while supposedly backed into a corner, it sounds like she came out on top and went a little crazy over it.

    Honestly, if I were in her situation and a guy cut in front of me and started calling me hate speech AND started attacking me, I would be both furious and terrified. I'm not nearly as abused as she was, but after going over what still feels like incomplete facts, I really don't blame her. My issue lies with the quick condemnation voices of her, here, and the heavy bias it feels like it stems from.

    Like I could very well be wrong, but judging by everybody who wants blood here being shockingly belligerent, I'm approaching with caution and skepticism.

    Maybe you have a source of facts that I'm not aware of that you could share?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The same sources as everyone else.
    She started it, she's bigger than him, she escalated it, she drew a knife, she has priors with knife-related incidents, she showed no remorse. You trying to defend her seems like trans exceptionalism. Trans are people, so there are good trans people and bad trans people. You can guess which option prevails in these comments.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago

    I saw no discussion of her being bigger than him, only that she was 6'5 in one article.

    I saw no definitive evidence of who started it. In fact I saw lots of articles saying they didn't know who started it.

    I saw people claiming she has no remorse, but somebody who was afraid for their life and sick and tired of being hate crimed wouldn't feel much remorse over deleting somebody to defend themselves. Could also be opposite performative.

    She drew a knife after being back against a wall after being punched at least three times, and telling him not to go to her. Which he obviously did. That SCREAMS self defense.

    Me trying to defend her could definitely seem like trans exceptionalism. But so could any dissent given to a trans person. Ive explained this previously, but I'll say it again: my issue is with the condemning anger and belligerence here. Which to me, seems like anti-trans rhetoric and microaggressions. Which is why I doubted this at all in the first place. If she's insane and did it in cold blood and unhinged, so be it, but the evidence and character judgements I've seen do not point to that at all, but rather that she was just a person like everybody else, and pushed really hard and decided to kill the person she was defending herself from. Which is the exact point of protecting people legally who are defending themselves.

    And then on top of it, it's a highly publicized story that's basically about a scuffle gone wrong between two random ass people in a sandwich shop. They're both nobodies. This is an obvious wedge story. Because if it was self defense or not, I think the greater interesting point is that so many people seem to be so passionate (belligerent) about it. It just FEELS so gross. Like... Is this a law community? Why are so many people up in arms about their anger being questioned? Did you know a postal worker? Are you falling prey to demonizing trans people? Do YOU have an agenda? Last I checked, doubting the optics of a case like this and questioning and looking for facts was a smart thing to do. We're all on the same side here, of not wanting to be murdered or taken advantage or abused..

    Like worst case, he was a violent transphobe who was angry and gonna hate crime her, or she was a drug addict looking for a fight and really wanted to just murder any person.

    But that's why I'm asking you for a source. Because yours obviously has different or more detail than the ones I've read.

    Here, I'll go first:

    https://www.tumblr.com/elierlick/785185926826557440/a-trans-woman-jaia-cruz-was-just-sentenced-to-15?source=share

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