871
The United States is Falling Apart and the World is Taking Notice (www.counterpunch.org)
submitted 2 years ago by [M] to c/progressivepolitics@lemmy.world
383 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

In three weeks, Donald Trump has imploded whatever positive image the United States might have had internationally.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 73 points 2 years ago (3 children)

The Roman Empire fell because of a series of invasions by “barbarian tribes.”

I cannot take this author seriously after they wrote this. It was, you know, just a little more complicated than that.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    I don't think the author meant that seriously. You see the quote around "barbarian tribes"? I think he considered this notion sarcastically, as this is "barbarian tribes" is often used by people less knowledgeble abou the topic.

    And for the US to implode within a few weeks, there must have been considerable rot inside. I am really not sure where precisely it started, but I consider Bretton Woods (both the system and it's breakdown), Nixon with the final breakdown of honor in politics, Reagan and his "trickle-down economy" lie Reageanomics, and Bush Junior with his Gulf War key milestones in that process. Notice a trend? They were all Republicans. That Trump puts the final nail into the US' coffin is only consequential.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    Isn’t it crazy for Nixon to be a point of honor? Recent presidents have gotten away with a lot worse, but there is no resignation in dishonor, there are no consequences, nobody cares any more

    This is actually a big part of what keeps pushing me farther left. The party of righteousness, fairness, strict legal enforcement, strictly adhering to the constitution, was always dishonest but they’ve completely dropped any pretenses in favor of outright criminality, corruption, throwing out the constitution, enriching their corporate benefactors. They no longer even pretend that oppression is about family values anymore or that we will be trickled upon

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] [S] 3 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    What made Rome fall?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] 74 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    It's a rather complex topic, but the short answer isn't barbarian invasion.

    The simplest correct answer is the Roman elite became less interest in preserving the Roman state and more interested in increasing their own personal wealth and influence.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago*

    What's wild is that "being Roman" persisted a lot longer than the tax system and patronage networks that had collapsed. It wasn't until a large portion of the people who thought of themselves as "Roman" were invaded by the Eastern Roman Empire that the Roman identity was broken up, to be replaced by the regional identities that people rallied around to defend themselves.

    I feel like if the ERE's leaders had taken a different approach, they could have stitched the Western Empire back together, but they broke it.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [+] -8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Also people stopped having enough kids

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    That’s potentially a global problem. It’s not specific to the US as long as we keep making ourselves an attractive destination for immigrants and keep welcoming them ……….. crap

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    define "enough kids" for me please.

    do you mean enough kids that their parents can't feed them off their own little farm, and the kids had to be sent to the cities as slave / poor workers, so that the machines can keep churning for the sake of profit?

    edit: sorry but i'm pissed and angry now. "not enough kids" like what? not enough kids to make sausage of them? not enough kids to burn them in the kettle of capitalism? not enough kids to flood the labor market with undervalued workers?

    i tell you what, it's capitalist propaganda that "people should have more kids", because they think it makes the wages fall. what it actually does is create poverty, mass unemployment, working poor, and civil unrest. may the empire be intoxicated by its own poison. may the corporations fall due to the civil unrest that they helped create.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    It all started with the reform known as the Pax Romana. Rome stopped waging wars that kept the influx of slaves, which were fundamental for their economic model. They didn’t realize the implications of such a decision and didn’t design a viable alternative in time.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [+] -19 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    It was the barbarian tribes, the kids are just being pedantic lmao

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago

    it took 100 or so years to really collapse and effective organization and leadership were big factors in that process. They didn't lose a war and poof, everything was over, they were always fighting several other civilizations for dominance, they started consistently losing when the soldiers started showing up in rags.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent