▲ 288 ▼ The culprit of all wars (lemmy.ml) submitted 2 years ago* by Confidant6198@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml 67 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 years ago (2 children) And in those times the causes were things like feudalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Wrufieotnak@feddit.org 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) The problem is and always was the power structure and the greed of those at the top of it. It had many different names and forms during history. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not all economic structures reward the same pursuits. Capitalism, as an example, naturally selects for those who can accumulate the most and discards the rest, and this process has been the source of countless wars. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Wrufieotnak@feddit.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I agree with your comment, but I didn't talk about economic structures, but rather about how power is distributed in a society. That is closely connected to the economic structure, sure. But for example the Soviet Union was state socialism and started enough wars themselves. Also not because the workers wanted it, but those in power did. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago The Soviet Union acted in its own interests, of course, but the wars it helped were largely those of national liberation from Colonialism, such as in Algeria or Palestine. That's why it is important to understand economic basis. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) That's describing capitalism, where profit maximization is systemically required for one to fulfill their role at "the top" and monopoly is the best way to increase profits. Historically, "greed" was not the main characteristic of the ruling class. They did not exist under capitalism. Money itself often meant little. Land, a military, prestige, yes. But money fir money's sake was officially frowned upon and generally left to the clergy to handle the hypocrisy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Wrufieotnak@feddit.org 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Greed was meant not only as greed for money but greed for power in general. Money itself is worthless, only its substitution for power is why it's important in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago Under capitalism, profit maximization is necessary for the company you own to survive. You cannot be a "nice capitalist", at least not for long. A person that is nice will have to conform their behavior to maximize profits anyways. This dynamic does not exist in other systems, where your class membership makes you a relentless recursive tool of the market. permalink fedilink source parent [+] MITM0@lemmy.world -10 points 2 years ago (2 children) Feudalism = colonialism = Capitalism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago That's a decidedly anti-Marxist view of history that attempts to over-equate. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago No, feudalism has different economic relations than capitalism. It is about farm product graft from land-bound peasants on penalty of death or injury. Capitalism is about wage working. Capitalism emerged in the context of feudalism, so there were periods where both existed side by side, but capitalism is clearly different. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Wrufieotnak@feddit.org 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) The problem is and always was the power structure and the greed of those at the top of it. It had many different names and forms during history. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not all economic structures reward the same pursuits. Capitalism, as an example, naturally selects for those who can accumulate the most and discards the rest, and this process has been the source of countless wars. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Wrufieotnak@feddit.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I agree with your comment, but I didn't talk about economic structures, but rather about how power is distributed in a society. That is closely connected to the economic structure, sure. But for example the Soviet Union was state socialism and started enough wars themselves. Also not because the workers wanted it, but those in power did. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago The Soviet Union acted in its own interests, of course, but the wars it helped were largely those of national liberation from Colonialism, such as in Algeria or Palestine. That's why it is important to understand economic basis. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) That's describing capitalism, where profit maximization is systemically required for one to fulfill their role at "the top" and monopoly is the best way to increase profits. Historically, "greed" was not the main characteristic of the ruling class. They did not exist under capitalism. Money itself often meant little. Land, a military, prestige, yes. But money fir money's sake was officially frowned upon and generally left to the clergy to handle the hypocrisy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Wrufieotnak@feddit.org 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Greed was meant not only as greed for money but greed for power in general. Money itself is worthless, only its substitution for power is why it's important in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago Under capitalism, profit maximization is necessary for the company you own to survive. You cannot be a "nice capitalist", at least not for long. A person that is nice will have to conform their behavior to maximize profits anyways. This dynamic does not exist in other systems, where your class membership makes you a relentless recursive tool of the market. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not all economic structures reward the same pursuits. Capitalism, as an example, naturally selects for those who can accumulate the most and discards the rest, and this process has been the source of countless wars. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Wrufieotnak@feddit.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I agree with your comment, but I didn't talk about economic structures, but rather about how power is distributed in a society. That is closely connected to the economic structure, sure. But for example the Soviet Union was state socialism and started enough wars themselves. Also not because the workers wanted it, but those in power did. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago The Soviet Union acted in its own interests, of course, but the wars it helped were largely those of national liberation from Colonialism, such as in Algeria or Palestine. That's why it is important to understand economic basis. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Wrufieotnak@feddit.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) I agree with your comment, but I didn't talk about economic structures, but rather about how power is distributed in a society. That is closely connected to the economic structure, sure. But for example the Soviet Union was state socialism and started enough wars themselves. Also not because the workers wanted it, but those in power did. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago The Soviet Union acted in its own interests, of course, but the wars it helped were largely those of national liberation from Colonialism, such as in Algeria or Palestine. That's why it is important to understand economic basis. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago The Soviet Union acted in its own interests, of course, but the wars it helped were largely those of national liberation from Colonialism, such as in Algeria or Palestine. That's why it is important to understand economic basis. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) That's describing capitalism, where profit maximization is systemically required for one to fulfill their role at "the top" and monopoly is the best way to increase profits. Historically, "greed" was not the main characteristic of the ruling class. They did not exist under capitalism. Money itself often meant little. Land, a military, prestige, yes. But money fir money's sake was officially frowned upon and generally left to the clergy to handle the hypocrisy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Wrufieotnak@feddit.org 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Greed was meant not only as greed for money but greed for power in general. Money itself is worthless, only its substitution for power is why it's important in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago Under capitalism, profit maximization is necessary for the company you own to survive. You cannot be a "nice capitalist", at least not for long. A person that is nice will have to conform their behavior to maximize profits anyways. This dynamic does not exist in other systems, where your class membership makes you a relentless recursive tool of the market. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Wrufieotnak@feddit.org 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Greed was meant not only as greed for money but greed for power in general. Money itself is worthless, only its substitution for power is why it's important in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago Under capitalism, profit maximization is necessary for the company you own to survive. You cannot be a "nice capitalist", at least not for long. A person that is nice will have to conform their behavior to maximize profits anyways. This dynamic does not exist in other systems, where your class membership makes you a relentless recursive tool of the market. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago Under capitalism, profit maximization is necessary for the company you own to survive. You cannot be a "nice capitalist", at least not for long. A person that is nice will have to conform their behavior to maximize profits anyways. This dynamic does not exist in other systems, where your class membership makes you a relentless recursive tool of the market. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] MITM0@lemmy.world -10 points 2 years ago (2 children) Feudalism = colonialism = Capitalism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago That's a decidedly anti-Marxist view of history that attempts to over-equate. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago No, feudalism has different economic relations than capitalism. It is about farm product graft from land-bound peasants on penalty of death or injury. Capitalism is about wage working. Capitalism emerged in the context of feudalism, so there were periods where both existed side by side, but capitalism is clearly different. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago That's a decidedly anti-Marxist view of history that attempts to over-equate. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago No, feudalism has different economic relations than capitalism. It is about farm product graft from land-bound peasants on penalty of death or injury. Capitalism is about wage working. Capitalism emerged in the context of feudalism, so there were periods where both existed side by side, but capitalism is clearly different. permalink fedilink source parent