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Tor’s shadowy reputation will only end if we all use it | Engadget (www.engadget.com)
submitted 3 years ago by to c/technology@lemmy.ml
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[–] 92 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)

I just don't think Tor Browser is currently suited as a primary browser for most people. You lose things like staying logged into websites, you can't (or at least shouldn't) really add extensions like a good content blocker, you generally can't tweak or customize the browser to your liking, etc. Plus factor in things like the slow speeds, being blocked by websites, bombarded with captchas everywhere, etc, and it just becomes a harder and harder sell for a lot of average people.

Tor Browser's great and it absolutely has its need and purpose, I'm not trying to knock it for that at all because it works damn well for what it is and what it tries to do, but I just think its hard to be using as a primary browser and daily driver in its current form, at least for a lot of people.

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    [–] 45 points 3 years ago (6 children)

    So when I first learned about TOR almost 10 years ago in uni, it was said to be compromised to a significant extent by secret services holding entry and exit nodes.

    Is that not true anymore?

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  • [–] 24 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    I’ve hear something similar. I think I read that the US Air Force has a bunch of nodes or something.

    Additionally I don’t really understand what I would use it for if I already have a vpn and how it might put me a risk of legal trouble if I’m using it and someone routes something bad through me while I’m using it…

    I’m not even sure how to talk about it.

    I am decently technical, I just don’t know this tech.

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  • [–] 36 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    Disclaimer that I haven’t used Tor in a while, do your own research, etc

    The US navy designed and open sourced the Tor network. If all the traffic meant to be anonymous was coming from the US navy it doesn’t work well as an anonymizer. There’s been various claims that they have backdoors over the years, but to my knowledge none have held water.

    Unless you’re running an exit node (which requires different software than the Tor browser) other people’s traffic isn’t getting routed through you so you’re fine legally.

    VPNs are not very good at protecting you from the websites or services you connect to. They’re best used to hide where you’re connecting to from your ISP. Modern fingerprinting using things like browsing habits, installed software, web browser size, cookies, etc is barely effected by VPNs and the Tor browser takes care of an minimizes lots of those tools.

    The biggest issue for day to day use for me is how slow it is. Because your traffic is being routed through 3-5 nodes before getting to its destination overall speed and latency suffer a lot

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  • [–] 5 points 3 years ago

    The biggest issue for day to day use for me is how slow it is. Because your traffic is being routed through 3-5 nodes before getting to its destination overall speed and latency suffer a lot

    That's why I never continued to use it after the times I experimented with Tor.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Modern fingerprinting using things like browsing habits, installed software, web browser size, cookies, etc is barely effected by VPNs and the Tor browser takes care of an minimizes lots of those tools.

    But can't you just spoof most of that if you really want to? If you're putting in the effort to be concerned with anonymity.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (2 children)

    Thanks for summarizing this for me. I think I could just use a vpn and librewolf to accomplish what you are talking about with the tor browser.

    Librewolf wipes everything once it’s closer and it pretty basic if you use the default settings.

    Are people using it to casually browse Lemmy and stuff?

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  • [–] 5 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    I also heared that bit about the secret service owning nodes a few years ago. It was trough a teacher that's also really in the stuff outside of teaching, and has a network of non-teaching proffesionals in the field.

    It's something to keep in mind, at the very least. Tor already has some weaknesses anyways. You shouldn't trust it blindly just because it's Tor. If anything, I think it more has a false rep for how strong it is over struggling with a stigma.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    Aren't bridges meant to prevent that?

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  • [–] 8 points 3 years ago

    Iirc holding both the entry and exit of a routed connection, you can in theory match traffic going through, which would let you connect a user to the server/site they are connecting to. It might still be encrypted at that point, idk the details anymore.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    I don't think a single credible source has shown this to be a vulnerability. You're talking about an attack that would cost, what, millions of dollars to run per day?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Dunno if it's all that expensive when there are hundreds of nodes on several individual malicious networks confirmed https://nusenu.medium.com/how-malicious-tor-relays-are-exploiting-users-in-2020-part-i-1097575c0cac

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    Most of the nodes are hosted by Tor Foundation itself

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    • [–] 16 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    Problem is that many sites don't work because of anti-ddos and anti bot measures.

    It is a pity

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    [–] 8 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    Sorry if my question is stupid, but can I use it as a "regular" browser (like Chrome, Mozilla, Opera, etc) on my Android smartphone?

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    You can, but you really shouldn't.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Why?

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  • [–] 14 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    It's meant for you to be completely anonymous. Logging in to stuff would defeat the whole purpose of TOR, as it would associate your activity with the account you logged into. When browsing sites without really needing to interact, it's good, as the sites cannot track you easily.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago

    There are many use-cases for Tor. One is anonymity. One is to bypass censorship. The most popular website on the darknet is Facebook.

    It doesn't "defeat the purpose" of using Tor in Tibet to access a Facebook page.

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    • [–] 8 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    I’d feel bad using the Tor network for everyday browsing. I think it should be reserved for people who really need it to protect themselves.

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  • [–] [S] 54 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    No. Use it for everyday tasks. If Tor is used by only people who need them, they will be easily detected. The whole reason US Navy released Tor to public was so normal users can scramble the usage detection. One more advantage is that right now lot of website block tor users if more users will use tor then they might stop it.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    Won't it cause browsing to much slower than it normally is?

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  • [–] 8 points 3 years ago

    A slower connection is better than ending up in prison, the re-education camps or worse, beheaded.

    Without average Joe's using it for nonsense Tor usage is basically a neon sign saying "I'm doing something worth hiding. Come and kill me."

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago

    This is an incorrect, unrealistic way to view this. By using the Tor network normally (you argument certainly applies to doing overly traffic intensive tasks like torrenting over Tor) you are normalizing its use, protecting those who really rely on it. If the only people using Tor were criminals and people who needed the protection, listening on Wifi networks for connections to Tor could lead to immediate prosecution (look what the UK is trying to do with encrpytion, and that French case where all of the evidence against a suspect was use of open source technology like Tor.) By default, Tor does not hide the fact its being used from your network (thats what a bridge is for), so the more people use Tor, the safer everyone is.

    If you really want to help those that need Tor's protection, run Snowflake on your desktop or Orbot's 'kindness' on Android. This allows users to use your device as a bridge, bypassing censorship in other countries / networks.

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    • [–] 8 points 3 years ago

    I would use it if it wasn't so slow. I get that it's slow because of the security, but that's precisely the reason it can never be my primary browser.

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    [–] 7 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    We'll see if Google's new efforts manage to kill the thing.

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    • [–] 7 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Is there an index of Tor network only sites?

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    • [–] 4 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    The reason why Tor is publicly available is to get lots of people using to better hide western intelligence agency traffic. So this article is basically stenography for the CIA. It may be secure or whatever, but you're essentially helping US assets hide their internet traffic.

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