An adult secret I love to teach kids is that none of us really know what the fuck we're doing either, we've just gotten better at winging it over the years.
It doesn't ever get better. We are stuck until we mercifully die.
No matter what I do it will always be an endless cycle of unmanageable chores and work, ever-changing medication and dumb productivity tips while I watch other people do everything effortlessly because they weren't born a disabled retard like myself. My achievements went from getting a good grade to being able to wash the dishes
Your success in life is dictated by the social connections you have and how good you are at maintaining them. When I was young I thought focusing on my education and working harder would automatically lead to a successful career, and while good academic performance does help, what's far more useful is having connections who will help you out, either through referrals or just by being a source of information about stuff you didn't know and it's easy to have some social life in school or college without much effort, because everyone meets up at a single place, as an adult socialization takes effort, cause now everyone is away living their own busy lives and it's not as easy to meet up face to face. This is why rich people like exclusive clubs so much, being able to be in the right social circles and having the ear of influential people will pay huge dividents. Also being a skilled liar is definately a very useful skill to have.
driving
I'm not even sure speeding tickets need to exist in 2025, there's so much traffic that no one in a 55 can break 53mph.
That my abusive mother had 3 kids by a previous marriage. She gave up full custody so she could keep the (shitty, old) house. I learned this when I was 18 or 19.
Every single thing anyone says or does is in self-interest.
Like, I have almost never witnessed anything contrary to it.
You mean.. mothers breastfeeding feeding their children? You mean men who find big rocks and throw them into water from heights to make a big splash? Do you mean people who donate their organs to other people? Do you mean the many artists, scientists, teachers, and basically everyone else that gets their ass out of bed every day to then put a smile on their face for other people, despite feeling existential despair inside because the last shred of reason for being has been invested in someone or something else, so they keep moving? Robin Williams?
I think we have very different ideas of what self-interest is. Namely, I think that you have confused the idea that one must suffer, or at least feel nothing, or it's not altruistic enough. That one should not enjoy acts of love, kindness, caring, giving, art, exploration... or they're secretly solipsistic. This isn't the condemnation of the world you think it is. This feels like a projection of an internal insecurity onto the greater portion of humanity.
I think most people have been guilty of thinking this at some point. Rather than feel threatened by my words or that I'm being critical of you and only you, I would ask that you do what I did when I once thought this very thought... think on if you're really willing to live the rest of your lived experience with this thought at the forefront. Not everyone gets this one right, but it could have consequences on your ability to actually 'enjoy' another human being without needing something from them to do so.
No one can look into someone else's soul and divine their intentions. IMO it's most likely that people's internal states are a mixture of various emotions and intentions when they are doing a gesture like you've given examples of, probably not all of them coherent with one another.
It seems to me that it's more a matter of perspective and you can choose to ascribe self-interest or choose to ascribe altruism but in both cases you are projecting, since it's just unknowable.
I think free software is quite a nice case study if you want to discuss it in a relatively emotion free context. Organ donation has a lot of other moral "baggage" around it as an issue. These people are giving up their valuable skills and time to create something which is for the benefit of others. Contributors also get to put it on their CV and get status in an online community. Often the more self-interested people drop out quite quickly and the ones who want to support their community stick around longer.
That's the thing, though. I don't need to get lost in the nuance and come out of the other side as a 'realist' or a cynic. The cold calculation of incalculation.. the idea that because we are not perfect judges, we should not judge at all, is sinister enough that it even has a meme: Letting perfect be the enemy of good.
When I do selfless acts - and I believe I have, if my act is seen as an act to my own benefit or with ulterior motive: I feel harmed and wish to withdraw. Why would I reason to live with the burden of seeing the world as so purely black and white that the only good that can come from it is beyond my recognition; because I too must be black and white or risk being an imperfect judge?
I'm not going to tell someone that their willingness to donate a kidney is anything less than altruistic just because there's 'emotional baggage' or they don't self ascribe properly.. I'm simply willing to accept it as a good thing.
Just because the future is unknowable doesn't relieve me of the burden or responsibility of making active choices that I feel make a positive difference, even if I can't foresee the outcomes. Should the man that saved Hitler's life from a crowd of angry people feel responsible for everything that Hitler did after the fact? Can I now cynically use that thought to help no one at all, so that I don't run the risk of saving the next Hitler? Yet do these same cynics that claim humans only work in self interest not go on to complain that so many are passive bystanders to horrific events? It's self defeating. I'd rather not be a bystander, because I feel a sense of duty to not be an enabler.
Finally, I don't have a need to sanitize my discussions from all emotions. I don't think that's productive so long as the emotions are genuine and an honest reflection of my state of being.
A sincere thank you for your response. I hope my response is received as well as I intend.
Choosing the least emotive example is a trick from my old philosophy studies. If we were talking about moral philosophy and weakness of wills, then the example would always be an extra slice of cake as opposed to an extra bottle of whisky, or something else that could elicit a strong emotive response. The idea would be that you'd get closer to the heart of the issue if you can find a neutral example that doesn't cloud your judgement by immediately giving you strong intuitions.
I can tell from your writing style that you are a romantic person though, which is awesome because it allows you to live which all of that colour you're describing. I'm personally maybe a bit more detatched/analytic (or something like that), which I realise sounds depressing/boring but I don't find it a source of negative emotions.
Ah, my friend.. I wish I were so romantic as I've misled you to believe. Admittedly I'm only prone to fits of it. You are, of course, correct about the need to find a neutral ground that is less prone to bias and more fit for consumption. Lately, I've been struck by the need to feel my humanity and express it, wildly. I'm just making the mistake of believing that an honest presentation is enough to convince others that it's a worthwhile endeavor, meanwhile being reckless in the attempt. A 'rage against the dying of the light', if you will allow.
I'm generally more as you self describe. I feel it would almost be too daring to say 'a classical stoic', not this new age stigma ridden thin veneer over cynicism with an edgy 'I don't give a shit' attitude. So, apologies if you feel slightly offended at the suggestion we are alike in that way. As for depressing and boring; I don't think that at all. Having that mental space --detached and analytic-- offers great benefits in introspection, self realization, critical thought, and enables me to safely empathize when it makes sense to do so.
I would like to think that I value your discussion on these topics more than you yet realize. I had an excellent philosophy teacher.
That "adults" are just kids that got older. Same goes for "old people". Everyone was once a 14 year old. There is no dividing line where you suddenly become an adult, and there is no dividing line between being an adult and being old.
We're all born, and we live a life of days, months years, decades... it's just you and your one, single life. You're always going to be you.
Make this one life count. Don't wait. Don't procrastinate. Make shit happen. You'll regret it if you don't.
What I learned in my years of working with younger and older adults is that most people have no idea what they are doing. Sone are convinced they do, some pretend they do, but overall it's just a lot of whatever.
As a kid I trusted adults knew what they were doing. As an adult I now know they have no clue what they are doing.
Most Americans can't read past an 8th-grade level, and that shocks hell out of me. When I was in 6th-grade, standardized tests pegged me at "college level", which I figured was utter bullshit, thought I was being buttered-up somehow. Turns out it was true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States
In 2023, 28% of adults scored at or below Level 1, 29% at Level 2, and 44% at Level 3 or above.[1] Adults scoring in the lowest levels of literacy increased 9 percentage points between 2017 and 2023. In 2017, 19% of U.S. adults achieved a Level 1 or below in literacy while 48% achieved the highest levels.[2]
Anything below Level 3 is considered "partially illiterate" (see also § Definitions below).[3] Adults scoring below Level 1 can comprehend simple sentences and short paragraphs with minimal structure but will struggle with multi-step instructions or complex sentences, while those at Level 1 can locate explicitly cued information in short texts, lists, or simple digital pages with minimal distractions but will struggle with multi-page texts and complex prose.[4] In general, both groups struggle reading complex sentences, texts requiring multiple-step processing, and texts with distractions.[4]
This explains so much about all the stupid shit I see. Most Americans literally aren't literate enough to follow a piece of literature, would struggle with any given novel.
People are mostly dumb. Justice is largely a myth. Chaos reigns.
Life is only shades of gray it’s not a marvel movie with clear cut Good and Bad
How easy and fast it is to cook good food. My mom acted like making real mashed potatoes was sooo difficult.
I saw someone comment that they 'couldn't cook.' I wanted to [metaphorically] slap them.
I never became adult
"You're only young once, but you can be immature forever."
Tony Perkins to Billy Dee Williams in "Mahogany." Heard that line years ago.
Tony Perkins from the Perkins System Ben Stiller on heavyweights?
spoiler
askldjfals;jflsad;
Lack of empathy is not something people grow out of, it seems like it is something that grows more severe the older people get.
Success in life is 75% luck. Everything you control (dedication, tenacity, ambition, follow through, dependability) is in the first 25%. The remaining 75% is just luck that you have no control over. That doesn't mean you can slack on that first 25%, but even if you absolutely kill it on the first 25% you can still fail in life. I say this as someone that most would consider successful. Yes I worked hard to get where I am, but lots of people work far harder and have far less. I was born in the right place, with the right talents, in the right period in time/history, and with enough of the preferred genetics. Even had everything else been equal and I was born 20 years earlier or 20 years later, I wouldn't be nearly as successful.
It shouldn't be like this. Its not fair its like this, but this is reality.
All the adults in my life with the exception of a very few are exactly as stupid or far stupider than I thought when I was a kid.
Shower sex.
In the movies it looks so hot, but in reality, you've got a eyes and mouth full of soap and your freezing. 2/10
Many adults have a much self-reflection and critical thinking skills as a 3-year-old.
Also, you can be highly intelligent yet very dumb.
I don’t understand the last part…
Not being able to stand up for yourself against people who can control/manipulate you financially.
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